clean signal layered over distortion

AFXSguy

New member
i got this idea off of this board in the "recordiing techniques" section. for recording heavily distorted guitar, mixing a separate clean signal in with the distorted one will help give it tone, and bring out the sound of each note... SO i made a diagram of a possible guitar setup. i used a D.I. box before my distortion effects and sent both the distorted signal and the clean signal to a mini mixer board. then out from the mixer board into my amp. then for live/recording, i will mic the amp. here is a diagram of what im talking about.

CLICK HERE TO SEE DIAGRAM

do you guys see any problems with this idea? im kinda confused about balanced/unbalanced signals. should i only have the DI box after my effects and stuff? if so, how could i split my signal so i could have one going to my pedal, and one straight to my little mixer?

(*EDIT - I made a better diagram. I love photoshop! It almost looks like a setup diagram from a guitar magazine!)
 
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I'm confused...why not just turn down the distortion? That's in effect what you are trying to do by adding more clean signal to the distorted one.

If you were going out to two amps and recording at the same time (one clean, one dirty), I could see where this setup would be useful, but in mono, it appears you are just taking a roundabout way of turning down the distortion knob.
 
fair enough... just an idea. the purpose would be to still get just as much gain for screaming leads... but keep the tone. when you turn down the gain to the point that it sounds sort of clean, your losing that screaming gain kind of sound, and it doesnt sound as aggressive. i know people do this while recording. they wont crank the gain, but they will add a clean signal to the distortion just to make it sound more defined. i thought... hey, why not do it before i send it to the board. this way i can get this more definitive sound live too! know what i mean?

also, even if im playing clean through the pedal, having two layers of the same signal makes it sound just a little fuller. isnt that also what people do while recording? they add another layer of guitar to make it sound a little fatter.
 
i know people do this while recording. they wont crank the gain, but they will add a clean signal to the distortion just to make it sound more defined. i thought... hey, why not do it before i send it to the board. this way i can get this more definitive sound live too! know what i mean?

also, even if im playing clean through the pedal, having two layers of the same signal makes it sound just a little fuller. isnt that also what people do while recording? they add another layer of guitar to make it sound a little fatter.

I think that fatter sound comes from doubling the guitar part though (two performances), not doubling the signal. The little timing imperfections and tonal differences combined are what make that huge sound.

But like everything else, nothing better than experimenting!
 
yah that makes sense (the small timing imperfections and tonal differences make the fatter sound).

im gonna play around with some recording tonight after i hook this up.
 
Aaron Cheney said:


haha... i just looked into the sparkle drive. i basically just recreated that idea. your right.

but i do have a little more freedom in how the distortion sounds (as my pedal simulates several distortion stomp boxes), and i can also set different EQ settings for each channel (distortion, clean) on the mixer.

ill call it... the ultra-versatile spark drive setup :eek:
 
what do u mean... yes there is two inputs... but there is also two outputs... you still have to combine them into one signal at one point. my mixer does that. the stereo volume pedal is just for controlling the volume of 2 different signals at once. but it doesnt combine them. what i could use is a morley ABY switch. but that would only turn on and off the signals without any blending options.

my DI box is only used to split the signal... then my mixer is used to control the volume of each signal... control EQ... THEN combine the signals, which can be sent to my amp and/or a console for live/recording.
 
but if you move the volume pedal with your foot... doesnt it change the volume of both inputs at the same time... so it's not like you could blend one input more than the other with your foot. if you push forward, it makes both louder... if you pull back on the pedal, it makes both quieter
 
I was going to recommend the sparkle drive also, but you guys beat me to it. I've used a similar setup sometimes with bass. It can be very useful and somewhat different from just turning down the distortion, but there are some things to worry about. First of all, most DI boxes will mess with the interaction between the guitar pickups and the amplifier. I'm really not sure about the technical side of it, but the sound of guitar pickups we are used to is caused in part by the pickups being "loaded" by the amplifier. Many DI boxes will take the load off of your pickups and change their tone. They make DI boxes that can load your pickups that aren't too expensive, Axess electronics makes some nice ones. The other problem is that routing one signal through an amplifier and then through a microphone can delay it slightly from the DI signal causing phasing problems. However, this can be easily fixed using most DAW software. If you are going to try this, at least be aware of the phasing problems. The pickup loading issue isn't really that big of a deal, but it drives some tone conscious guitarists nuts.
 
okay... so then what about using something like a Morley ABY selector? that splits the signal from one unbalanced 1/4", into two unbalanced 1/4" jacks.

or what about using the effects send and return on my mixer? then i could fade in the distortion with the fx level knob. that technically should work right?
 
but if you move the volume pedal with your foot... doesnt it change the volume of both inputs at the same time... so it's not like you could blend one input more than the other with your foot. if you push forward, it makes both louder... if you pull back on the pedal, it makes both quieter

Unless I am thinking of a different pedal, you can also use it in "pan" mode. Rocking it forward favors one input over the other. Mike McCready (Pearl Jam) uses a setup like this to go between a clean and dirty amp.
 
Some 2-channel tube amps let you combine clean channel with the distortion channel and adjust the balance of the two for this effect. It does add a sort of Stevie Ray Vaughn effect to the guitar.
But I've found that the distortion channel by itself with the distortion turned down to around 7 and the volume turned up good sounds better.
 
hey -

really, once you try the doubling you'll be bowing to yourself in the mirror as a guitar diety

really, doubling sounds =that= cool

how many tracks do you have to work with?
 
I would just keep it simple and record the part twice. Adding a clean track helps alot but it still needs to sound good and a DI track is usually to wimpy. Record a second take with a cleaner tone on the amp and combine them together.
 
I use 2 amps in my setup...aFender Power Chorus for the clean and a Peavey 5150 for the distortion. Then I run an Ernie Ball Pan/Volume pedal through both of them, that way when Im fading from clean into distorion, its not harsh but very smooth. Very good setup if you switch from clean to distortion or your distorted head has crappy clean tones.
 
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