can you recommend a small amp that does clean well?

[Nola]

i'm in an apartment and want to get rid of my sims and need something small to record on, but it has to be able to do clean tones for recording and take a bunch of pedals (distortion, wah, etc). my favorite guitarist is j mascis, so that type of tone when distorted, but when clean i like more modern sounds that are "pretty" and "chimey" (without being harsh/bright) sounds. i found some that are interesting, like a Princeton, but when i read the reviews people say they are "boxy", which i guess is a problem of most small amps. but if anyone has ideas let me know thanks.

 

[JDOD]

What's your budget?

 

[Nola]

What's your budget?

Hi Jdod. I think 2k is the most I'd spend, but I'd be much happier around $1,200.

 

[JDOD]

Hi Jdod. I think 2k is the most I'd spend, but I'd be much happier around $1,200.

You've got crazy options at that budget. That's a great budget for a small amp. I'm assuming you mean 5 to 10W you got the mica you need too?
What other kit have you got, pedals, mics etc? What style of music do you want to record?

 

[Robus]

Plenty of options. You shouldn't discount the Princeton. Give the '68 Reissue a listen. I haven't noticed them to sound boxy. You could totally record a great tone with that amp. Those little amps get louder than you think. A step-up is '65 or '68 Reissue Deluxe Reverb, which is 22 watts. It's all the Fender you'll ever need. Might be too loud for your apartment.

I'm pretty thrilled with my Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 18 head and 1x12 cab. It's really useful. It's got a power step down from 18 to 5 to 1 watts output, and a Reddi speaker emulation that lets you record silently. You'd be surprised how good the emulation sounds. It's not for everybody. You either like its tone or you don't. It has an FX loop but doesn't seem to like pedals in the front end, so it might not be for you.

 

[Nola]

You've got crazy options at that budget. That's a great budget for a small amp. I'm assuming you mean 5 to 10W you got the mica you need too?
What other kit have you got, pedals, mics etc? What style of music do you want to record?

I don't have any pedals yet, but I plan to build a distortion pedal and a wah to start out because I've been getting into electronics and building some of my own stuff.

By mica do you mean tubes? I do have some good tubes that I got in trade with some guy off CL.

Do you think pedals will turn everything to mush on the small amps? I assume on a small amp you'd have to have the volume around 3 or 4 max for clean tones, then use the pedals to get the effect you want. Is that right? Would an amp like a Princeton or Champ (or a Deluxe like Robus mentions) all be able to handle pedals? Those were the 3 I was looking at...are they good choices for my situation?

I play mostly underground rock type stuff like Modest Mouse, Dinosaur Jr, The Strokes, Velvet Underground, but I also like a lot of punk and blues and really anything. I just love music...all of it (except almost everything on the radio). I'd base my sound around those first three bands and then fine tune it to make my own sounds. I really like the clean/chimey tones of Modest Mouse, like the song "World at Large". Do you think the Princeton or Deluxe could do those tones at apartment volumes (like 1 or 2 on the volume I'd guess)?

Also, do you think these amps will all sound better than sims, even in an awful room?

Am I wrong to think that with the small amps it's hard to get a good, pure clean tone? I feel they are either too low in volume to get a nice tone or if you push them to good volume they start to break up.

 

[Robus]

Those small amps have great sounding clean tone. What they can't do is clean and loud at the same time. They have no headroom. That's not a problem if you are using it for recording. In fact, the advantage is that you can get drive at reasonable volume. For clean, turn down.

I don't know about the Princeton. The Deluxe takes pedals well. I haven't found room to be an issue when close-miking.

 

[Greg_L]

Also, do you think these amps will all sound better than sims, even in an awful room?

Maybe. Small amps at low volumes and sims are about on the same level. Neither is ideal, but they can work. Small amps sound small because they're small. Small power, small settings, small cabs, all small, no headroom. Give it a try, but a small amp force fed a bunch of buzzy fuzzy pedals doesn't sound like a good recipe to me. I understand that's how you heroes do it, but JMascis uses three fucking Marshall stacks too.

Am I wrong to think that with the small amps it's hard to get a good, pure clean tone? I feel they are either too low in volume to get a nice tone or if you push them to good volume they start to break up.

That's usually how it works. I'm talking small amps though. An 18-22 watt Fender isn't really a small amp. A 1-5 watt amp is a small amp.


I'd suggest an Orange TH30. They can be switched down to to 7 watts (if I remember correctly) and they have a clean and really dirty channel. I know they sound good. They're just right for pretty good cleans and those dirty underground tones you want. You won't need one single pedal...unless you just want to use them.

 

[JDOD]

Nola, what about this

Blackstar Artist 15 1x12 Valve Combo | Andertons

My Blackstar has been perfectly reliable, this is from the artisan range, which is a lower gain more fender type amp than I would go for. It's well below your budget, will probably record well at a decent apartment volume and has a usuable emulated out for when you don't want to make noise. Given what you've said about your influences and you've been talking about Smashing Pumpkins a two channel amp would probably be useful for you.

A fender blues jr might suit you too.

Both of these options Will leave you with a lot of change to spend on mics and whatever pedals you want.

 

[pikingrin]

I'd suggest an Orange TH30. They can be switched down to to 7 watts (if I remember correctly) and they have a clean and really dirty channel. I know they sound good. They're just right for pretty good cleans and those dirty underground tones you want. You won't need one single pedal...unless you just want to use them.

+1

The TH30 was the first amp to come to mind when I read through the OP. Even on the 7 watt setting it gets loud enough but it can do that loud with a solid clean as well. It also takes pedals like a champ, too.

 

[Nola]

thanks guys. i made a list, so far:

TH30
Blackstar 15
Fender Deluxe
Fender Princeton (should i consider this one still or is there no headroom?). I used to own a champ a while ago and it sounded a bit "lifeless" when recording it clean at low volumes, imo. Maybe i did something wrong i didn't know much about recording then. Also, what do you think about brownface vs blackface vs silverface vs a new reissue? What's the way to go?

I like the sound of Blues Jrs and played one recently, but i heard bad things about their components and build. They also sound a little dark/overly mellow when on clean, to my ears at least.

I'm going to try to find a store that has those amps and test them.
My brother lives like 5hrs away, so if i get a slightly larger amp i can probably practice with it at low volume, and then drive to his place when i'm ready to record.

Oh...I also heard combo amps eat through tubes more...is that true or internet lore?

 

[Nola]

A guy on CL is selling a 63 showman for $1500.
I'm almost tempted to buy it since that's so cheap, but it's 100w...haha

 

[Greg_L]

but it's 100w...haha

That's a good thing.

 

[Greg_L]

Oh...I also heard combo amps eat through tubes more...is that true or internet lore?

It's not really true, but a small amp can go through tubes faster if you're always pushing it hard in a desperate attempt to mimic a big amp.

 

[Nola]

That's a good thing.

Ideally, but do you think even on setting 1 I'd be able to play it in my apartment and/or record?

They usually sell for ~3000+, and this guy only wants 1500...he's a collector saying he just wants to get rid of some amps (he has over 80!), and even offered to meet me at a local music shop to check it out. I feel like it's such a good deal I should buy it, but then I have a 100w amp in an apartment...lol

 

[Greg_L]

Ideally, but do you think even on setting 1 I'd be able to play it in my apartment and/or record?

They usually sell for 3500, and this guy only wants 1500...he's a collector saying he just wants to get rid of some amps (he has over 80!), and even offered to meet me at a local music shop to check it out. I feel like it's such a good deal I should buy it, but then I have a 100w amp in an apartment...lol

Lol, no. Buy it for what it is if you want it, but it's not practical for an apartment. I don't think they're really 100 watts though. More like 80-85. But that's still way too much for your situation.

 

[Robus]

Good suggestions for you Nola. If there's a option, I'd always go for a head/cab rig over a combo. Apart from everything else, there are workflow advantages for recording that you will come to appreciate, like being able to have the tone controls in easy reach while you put the cab wherever you want--even in another room. But if you dig classic Fender tones, that comes in a combo.

Good call on the Blues Jr. You should be able to find one used. I think of them as being in the same series as the Hotrod line--a step down from the Princeton or Deluxe reissues, but great value for money and absolutely capable of delivering good tone.

Don't even worry about clean tone. You can get great clean tone from small amps--if anything, some of them struggle with gain. They won't fill a club or compete with a drummer, but if what you are doing is recording in a home studio, the lack of volume won't be an issue. Stick a mic in front and play.

Once you get into recording amps, you won't want to go back to sims.

 

[Nola]

Lol, no. Buy it for what it is if you want it, but it's not practical for an apartment.

Yeah...darn. I wonder if I could buy it and flip it for a profit, and use that profit to buy an amp...it's tempting. Then I can pitch a show to A&E, "Amp Flippers", about a guy who buys underpriced amps and flips them so he can buy gear he actually needs.

 

[Nola]

Good suggestions for you Nola. If there's a option, I'd always go for a head/cab rig over a combo. Apart from everything else, there are workflow advantages for recording that you will come to appreciate, like being able to have the tone controls in easy reach while you put the cab wherever you want--even in another room. But if you dig classic Fender tones, that comes in a combo.

Good call on the Blues Jr. You should be able to find one used. I think of them as being in the same series as the Hotrod line--a step down from the Princeton or Deluxe reissues, but great value for money and absolutely capable of delivering good tone.

Don't even worry about clean tone. You can get great clean tone from small amps--if anything, some of them struggle with gain. They won't fill a club or compete with a drummer, but if what you are doing is recording in a home studio, the lack of volume won't be an issue. Stick a mic in front and play.

Once you get into recording amps, you won't want to go back to sims.

Thanks Robus. Right now I have it narrowed down to those 4 I mentioned. I really want to like a blues jr because it's so cheap and usable, but do you find it kind of dark/muddy on clean? I played one about a month ago and just felt that way about it. It sounded nice and round but kind of dark vibe with lack of clarity to me. And then online people complained about its build quality. One cheap amp I really liked the sound of was the Hotrod Deville III. The Strokes use that amp, and it sounds great, but 60w is too much. I think I read the Blues Deluxe is the same amp but 30w/1 speaker, but I'm not sure. If anyone has one I'd like to hear what you think of it.

Regarding clean tones, I did have a nice Champ a few years ago but had to sell it when i moved. The cleans on it sounded a bit lifeless at low volume. By the time I got the volume up to hear a little chime in the tone it got dirty. I feel like that's the problem. Do you think a Fender Deluxe/12"/22w would have more headroom than a Princeton? Do you have any opinion on the vintage black,brown,silver faces vs the new reissues?

 

[Robus]

Ideally, but do you think even on setting 1 I'd be able to play it in my apartment and/or record?

They usually sell for ~3000+, and this guy only wants 1500...he's a collector saying he just wants to get rid of some amps (he has over 80!), and even offered to meet me at a local music shop to check it out. I feel like it's such a good deal I should buy it, but then I have a 100w amp in an apartment...lol

Here's what I think will happen. To keep the neighbors happy, you'll wind up playing with the volume dialed down below the level where the amp comes alive. To compensate, you'll stick some pedals in the chain, but it won't sound quite as good as the tone in your head. After a while, you'll wish you had a different amp.

By the time I got the volume up to hear a little chime in the tone it got dirty. I feel like that's the problem. Do you think a Fender Deluxe/12"/22w would have more headroom than a Princeton? Do you have any opinion on the vintage black,brown,silver faces vs the new reissues?

That Deluxe will chime its ass off, and I'll bet the Princeton would too. (We are talking about the real Princeton, not that solid state amp by the same name).