Blind test about digital and analog guitar tones for you guys to do

Schwarzenyaeger

Schwarzenyaeger

Formerly "Dog-In-Door"
Hey everybody,

I've been working on a project for uni about digital and analog guitar technology. I put together a survey about differentiating between digital and analog guitar amplifiers.
For this I laid down 6 riffs and reamped them through a total of ten different amplifiers, both valve and digital/simulations, to compose a study.

It's a total of 36 guitar tracks and should take 15-20 minutes to complete.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/CXS5KGN

Thanks to anybody who takes the survey!
 
Thanks, Bytre.

It won't, miroslav. But if you tell me what you answered at the part about "additional comments" or what kind of speaker brand you entered, I could fish out your responses and tell you.
 
I spent about 5 seconds/clip on my computer speakers...I just wanted to see how it would come out simply going with my initial gut feeling and not spending a lot of time "analyzing" each complete sound clip....so the whole thing took me about 5 minutes.
I'm not expecting any revelations, but you can send me the results so I can get a chuckle.

I would rather do it on my studio system where the monitoring is a little more decent instead of computer speakers.
Oh...I left no comments, and for the monitors I just said "Mackies"which is my studio system....even though I was actually listening on my computer speakers at the time....sorry. :)

I was going to say that I wish there was more variety to the guitar sounds/licks...it was kind leaning mostly in the Metal/Hard Rock stuff.
Also, when doing reamps...the fact that there where so many different flavors makes any comparison between amp and sim a bit apples to oranges. IOW...if you dialed in a certain kind of tone with the amp...and then dialed in the same kind of tone with a sim...and compared the two, then it would be more 1:1.
Like...if you picked a real shitty tone on an amp and compared that to some completely different, well dialed in tone on a sim...kinda hard to know what it is you are comparing....but I get it, you just wanted an overall comparison of amps/sims.
 
I personally thought it was well balanced. A rock riff, a metal riff, a rock riff in context of a band, a clean riff, a crunch/funky riff and a clean/mild crunch tune in the context of a band. There was a slight bias towards heavier tones but that is also the greatest discipline in modeling. Convincing distortion is hard to pull off digitally.

Most sim and valve comparisons that I found were always direct A/B comparisons of a sim trying to model an amp but I felt like that was low hanging fruit and only used maybe 2-3 examples. I tried to diversify it by using shitty sim software (Eleven Free) and the best modeling around (Kemper) as well as small range valve amps like the Tiny Terror and bigger ones like the Rectifier.
It's not about which sounds better, it's which sounds real. A shitty valve amp will still be pushing air and have a more three dimensional sound than a mediocre sim, even if it is a less desirable overall tone, I have found. I think that there are a few inherent qualities in a real guitar sound that a lot of simulations fail to capture. There are definitely a few valve tones in there that I wouldn't use myself but they still sound like a valve amp.

There are so many factors that you have to take into account: guitar, strings, interface, room, mics, speakers, amps and of course, the actual skill in recording of the engineer themselves. I'm doing one of these surveys and I mean to repeat the survey a few years down the line when I've gotten better at guitar recording and better with the Kemper.

So no, this will not be an "end to all A and D comparison".

You got 15/36 right :D
 
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Were the simulations through the kemper or did you use Amplitube (or any other ITB software sim)? (Never mind, you just answered this.)

I listened through Focal Spirit pro headphones and my JBL LSR305 monitors - listened to all of the clips twice. I am interested in hearing the results! :thumbs up:
 
I used a one low end, one mid tier, two upper-mid tier and one high end simulation, in my own rankings.

I am too. The result I've gotten so far is that I've sold my Axe-Fx. lol
 
I echo miro's nitpicks. But it's not a big deal. The thing that jumped out to me the most, but could also give away the clips, is that you didn't play "live" into the real amps. An amp interacts with a guitar in real time that a sim just can't muster. Feedback and singing sustain being two of those things. But feedback would have given it away, most likely. Anyway, kudos on a simple to use but pretty well thought out survey. You obviously put a lot of work into it and I can respect that. :)
 
Thanks, man.
It took me about 25 hours to get all the amps from friends, record, reamp and create the survey. I have a big excel spreadsheet with every single setting I used on every amp on every riff as well.

In addition to the feedback and sustain thing: there are a few examples in there that should be dead giveaways by the ridiculously low noise floor on incredibly distorted tones between palm mutes, which is usually a really heavy noise gate on a sim. I've begun to leave it off on the Kemper to have a bit of that buzzing. It's oddly pleasent.

Anyhow, there are undeniably many, many factors to take into account, which is why I find a simplistic view of "Digital or Analog" a bit silly. You'd have to add so many asterikes to that question that I'd have to write separate essay about it.
 
I'll echo what Greg said...you did a hell of a job setting all that up. :thumbs up:
My comments on the types/styles of clips you choose to use, were based on my own personal tone/playing tastes...otherwise they were all good clips, well played and recorded.

It's hard to remove all bias and make it a 1:1 comparison. As you yourself noted, there's too many variables.
I think playing/recording live rather than reamping makes a difference...and this thing about amp VS sim differences is IMO mostly for the player's perspective, not so much the listener's. Playing/recording an amp live, has that special interaction that sims or reamping don't provide. Tone-wise...these days there are sims that can sound quite good, and be unnoticeable in a mix, and that's more for the listener's perspective.
I do think that a bad sim tone sticks out a lot more than a bad amp tone...especially when in the higher crunch zone...but there's players who also manage to make an amp sound like ass, so it kinda washes out. :D

If I have a chance, I will give it another shot in my studio on my main monitors instead of the computer speakers, and I'll spend more than a few seconds per clip. :p
I was at work, and didn't have the time to devote to any extensive listening, but once I started it, I realized you have to go through to the end...so I just literally flew through them sometimes only hearing the first few notes before making my selection. I just wanted to see how it would come out going at that fast pace.
If I do it again...I'll put something in the comments so you know it's me again...and you can check it out if I did any better.
At least you didn't tell me which ones were right or wrong, so it will be a legit second time around. :)
 
Shoot. Should have read the thread so I could know to include a comment to know my accuracy rate.

So my usual thought was something along the lines of "this tone is way too bad for any self-respecting amp sim!"
 
I know that was for steve, but I'm curious how many I got right (if any)... Focal spirit pro headphones and JBL LSR305s... :D
 
Greg_L said:
I echo miro's nitpicks. But it's not a big deal. The thing that jumped out to me the most, but could also give away the clips, is that you didn't play "live" into the real amps. An amp interacts with a guitar in real time that a sim just can't muster. Feedback and singing sustain being two of those things. But feedback would have given it away, most likely. Anyway, kudos on a simple to use but pretty well thought out survey. You obviously put a lot of work into it and I can respect that. :)
Click to expand...

That's what I was going to say but decided not to because there's just no comparison between a guitar in the room with the amp and any sort of reamping.
 
VomitHatSteve said:
I said MoreMe headphones
Click to expand...

21/36 for you.

Whoever wrote "Post my results as Meyer HD1's, ok?
Very cool you did this, lets see how wrong I was, lol"

got 23/36.

Interestingly enough, everybody is the most accurate on the clean tones, which I personally find the hardest to distinguish. The distorted tones are pretty all over the place.
 
I listened only on Focal Spirit Pro headphones, if you get a chance to post mine. I added a comment that "I don't play or listen much to heavy stuff, making those tones most difficult."

This is a very cool exercise, if nothing else. Thanks for taking the time and energy.
 
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