Soundcraft M Series or Allen & Heath MixWizard (or other)?

nuemes

nuemes

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Soundcraft M Series or Allen & Heath MixWizard? Or something else?

I've got a single ADAT setup currently using a Mackie 1202VZLpro. The preamps are pretty good but I'd like to upgrade to a mixer with better EQ (the 1202 is harsh) and more Aux sends for effects at mixdown (the 1202 has two aux sends).

The mixer will be used only in studio and its main functions will be to provide preamps during recording and then eight channels for mixdown.

So the things most important to me are:
1. High quality preamps (low noise, sit well in the mix)
2. Musical sounding EQ (as opposed to the harsh, crispy EQ of the Mackie)
3. At least 4 Aux sends for adding effects at mixdown
4. An over-all quiet board for mixdown of at least 8 channels

After some research here & elsewhere it seems that the Allen & Heath MixWizard (WZ3 16:2, 16 mono channels) or Soundcraft Spirit M12 (12 mono, 4 stereo) would be the best options but I do not have any personal experience with these mixers - nor any others than the Mackie.

Considering the four key requirements listed above, what would you purchase with a budget that does not exceed $1000 for a new (not used) board?

Please list whether or not you've had direct experience with the board you recommend and whether you've had experience with Soundcraft & Allen & Heath boards in the past. Thanks!
 
I would like to know which would be preferred here as well. I am looking for a high-end mixer as well. The Allen and Heath mixers are much more pricey, but are they better than the Soundcraft mixers?
 
nuemes said:
Please list whether or not you've had direct experience with the board you recommend and whether you've had experience with Soundcraft & Allen & Heath boards in the past. Thanks!
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I have the MW 16:2 v2 which I use with an HD24 and it works great! 6 aux channels which I use for 2 monitor mixes, 2 headphone mixes, and the last two for onboard effects (nice for verb in cans, not much else). With 16 channels you could have dedicated send & return channels with a single ADAT. I have to plug & unplug :( , usually I use the rig for live recording where I am also running sound, so I just use 16 input channels & do the mixdown on PC. One of my future projects is to mod the channel pads to also act as a mic/line in switch.

Anyway, great mixer, easy to use, easy to mod. With the v3, you can mod the effects presets with software; I hear that helps them substantially.
 
One of the difficult things to deal with today is how many options we have.

Few years ago I thought I had to have a mixing console no matter what. Now I'm seeing that's not always the case. My mixer is now only used for routing and monitoring so I'm not concerned about it's pre's. None of these cheaper consoles preamps are gonna compare to a quality stand alone pre. They will get the job done but I've gone to the philosophy of spending more on things like like higher quality stand alone pre's and mix in the box. And if you can't stand mixing with a mouse then get a controller. I'm entertaining that idea now but I have to admit I have gotten somewhat use to mixing with a mouse. Of cousre then you get into the whole summing issue too.

Perhaps a controller would work for you?
 
They're both good boards--ther primary difference is price associated with somewhat better build quality and feature set with the A&H board. I'm not sure you can get one new for less than $1,000, but you can definitely get an M12 for less than that. I have the M12 and it works very well for me. I mainly use it for tracking rather than mixing. The preamps sound very good to me. I don't use the channel EQs much, but when I have they're very useable as well.
 
therage! said:
None of these cheaper consoles preamps are gonna compare to a quality stand alone pre... Perhaps a controller would work for you?
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I've got an Avalon M5 pre which I record direct to the ADAT for key mono sources (vocal, guitar, snare). The board pre's would handle kick, drum OH, & anything mic'd in stereo.

I'm not familiar with controllers or computer recording as of this time. It seems the weakest link in my chain right now is the mixer; I would think that getting into computers would lead into more money pits than I can afford right now(?)
 
nuemes said:
I've got an Avalon M5 pre which I record direct to the ADAT for key mono sources (vocal, guitar, snare). The board pre's would handle kick, drum OH, & anything mic'd in stereo.

I'm not familiar with controllers or computer recording as of this time. It seems the weakest link in my chain right now is the mixer; I would think that getting into computers would lead into more money pits than I can afford right now(?)
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With that many inputs needed I can see how a console would help. Plus with the console you have all that routing and monitoring flexibility. Sounds like the A&H would be a good choice for you. I think the AH has individual circuit boards for every channel. So if a channel needs to be replaced you swap out a board.
 
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The Allen and Heath have the best sound. If you want close to that try an older Studiomaster. I have a P7. 16 channels, full in line monitoring. Nice EQ. Pres are useable but if you crank them they can be a bit noisy.
 
I have used most every SOundcraft and Allen heath console out there at one time or another. Personally, I am not a big fan of the newer Soundcraft stuff. Not even the really expensive stuff (Series 5). I would go with the Mix Wiz in this scenario. I actually do like the sound of the M series stuff, but if I had to pick, the Allen Heath sound fits MY style better, plus offers more options. You should be able to get a new Mix Wiz for around $1000, and probably a little less. If you can't, drop me a PM:)
 
xstatic said:
I have used most every SOundcraft and Allen heath console out there at one time or another. Personally, I am not a big fan of the newer Soundcraft stuff. Not even the really expensive stuff (Series 5). I would go with the Mix Wiz in this scenario. I actually do like the sound of the M series stuff, but if I had to pick, the Allen Heath sound fits MY style better, plus offers more options. You should be able to get a new Mix Wiz for around $1000, and probably a little less. If you can't, drop me a PM:)
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Soundcraft was bought ny the dreaded Harmon Group. Soundcraft is now going as predicted. Downhill. Harmon Group has screwed up every company they have aquired. They seem to prefer middle of the road equipment that is made as cheaply as possible. A&H is still owned by the original company and still makes excellent products.
 
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Not too long ago Allen Heath was Harmon also. Their product has not changed much at all since they bought themselves back. Soundcraft has been Harmon for a long time. I believe that even Lexicon is or at least is going to be Harmon soon as well. Also, Amek is Harmon.
 
xstatic said:
Not too long ago Allen Heath was Harmon also. Their product has not changed much at all since they bought themselves back. Soundcraft has been Harmon for a long time. I believe that even Lexicon is or at least is going to be Harmon soon as well. Also, Amek is Harmon.
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Lexicon was bought by Harmon eons ago. Lexicon also went way down hill. Amek and Studer are owned by Harmon, but they are strictly professional products and there is no danger of Harmon interfering with them. A&H did start to feel the pain in the late 90s, but recovered just in time (They bought themselves back because Harmon was not really interested in them anyway). Soundcraft is a new aquisition (in the Harmon World) and I have seen their new products start to be Behringerized already. So, how low Soundcraft will sink is anyone's guess, but the sad part is everyone here will fight like cats and dogs to defend Soundcraft's reputation despite being duped with similar products with cheap parts. This happenned to Lexicon for years. It was only when people actually bought the current Lexicon product that they realized they drastically sucked. They wished and heard the mighty Lexicon when it *was* a fantasick product. Now Kurzweil is starting too. When will Harmon stop?
 
The MixWizard is about three times the price of an M12 over here ... the A+H is definitely better but you have to decide how important that extra investment is. For my part, I am very happy with my M12, and I will skip out A+H and go to the next level when I next upgrade my mixer ...

If I could only have one, I would of course take the A+H, if only (and it wouldn't be only) for the servicability. :)
 
noisedude said:
The MixWizard is about three times the price of an M12 over here ... the A+H is definitely better but you have to decide how important that extra investment is.
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I found a Soundcraft M8 for $375 used. I figure buy used so if I don't like the sound I can resell it w/out loosing any money and then take a step towards A&H. It arrives in a week; I'm excited to hear how it sounds in comparison to the Mackie.
 
nuemes said:
I found a Soundcraft M8 for $375 used. I figure buy used so if I don't like the sound I can resell it w/out loosing any money and then take a step towards A&H. It arrives in a week; I'm excited to hear how it sounds in comparison to the Mackie.
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Anything to report? How do the Mic pre's sound? I'm considering one, mostly for the pre's (to use on drums, etc), and for monitoring. I mix in Cubase, and don't even have a mixer right now!

Thanks in advance-
 
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