Combining multiple sources into one speaker?

M

Milkman

New member
Hi all,

I have a bit of a unique situation that I've been asked to solve. Currently at my church, we have an electric organ with a built in amp that outputs to 4 large speakers. We have a separate Yamaha PA system that we use for everything else. Basically, I've been asked to get rid of some of these speakers. They would like everything to be combined into one system using small, wall-mountable speakers.

I have been asked to find speakers that both the output of the organ, and the Yamaha powered mixer can plug into. Do such speakers exist? I feel like this does not work because of the two amps, but am open to suggestions!

Thanks,

Milkman
 
Milkman said:
Hi all,

I have a bit of a unique situation that I've been asked to solve. Currently at my church, we have an electric organ with a built in amp that outputs to 4 large speakers. We have a separate Yamaha PA system that we use for everything else. Basically, I've been asked to get rid of some of these speakers. They would like everything to be combined into one system using small, wall-mountable speakers.

I have been asked to find speakers that both the output of the organ, and the Yamaha powered mixer can plug into. Do such speakers exist? I feel like this does not work because of the two amps, but am open to suggestions!

Thanks,

Milkman
Click to expand...

in general you can't put mutiple amps into a single speaker so you can forget that.

Also ....... would the speakers the organ runs into be Leslies?
If so ..... you're gonna lose a major factor about organs that organ players love and require.
If, OTOH, the organ is more of a pipe organ type organ then you could possibly eliminate the organs speakers and just run a direct into the PA but you might not have a decent low end compared to what the organ's running thru now.

Off the top of my head it sounds like a bad idea in terms of what it's gonna sound like when you're finished.
 
I was going to work up to these issues one at at time to simplify it for the OP, but the cat's out of the bag, so...

Lt. Bob said:
in general you can't put mutiple amps into a single speaker so you can forget that.
Click to expand...

That's what a direct box with a 30-40dB pad is for, to take an amplifier output and knock it down to line-ish level to put it in the mixer.

Lt. Bob said:
Also ....... would the speakers the organ runs into be Leslies? If so ..... you're gonna lose a major factor about organs that organ players love and require.
Click to expand...

Probably not all of them. One, maybe two. That's what the Motion Sound rotary speaker simulator I was going to suggest would be for.

Lt. Bob said:
If, OTOH, the organ is more of a pipe organ type organ then you could possibly eliminate the organs speakers
Click to expand...

I doubt it's a pipe organ. Pipe organs don't need speakers.

Lt. Bob said:
and just run a direct into the PA but you might not have a decent low end compared to what the organ's running thru now.
Click to expand...

That depends entirely on the PA system. "Small wall-mountable speakers" probably won't do the organ justice.

Lt. Bob said:
Off the top of my head it sounds like a bad idea in terms of what it's gonna sound like when you're finished.
Click to expand...

It's definitely fraught with problems, but they can be solved with a bit of knowledge and a budget.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
I doubt it's a pipe organ. Pipe organs don't need speakers.



.
Click to expand...
did you catch where I said pipe organ type organ?
VERY many churches with pipe organs use something like an Allen or Rodgers which are electronic pipe organs and use multiple speakers and no pipes at all.

I tune pianos and do minor work on church organs so I'm pretty familiar with them after 35 years of doing church pianos ....... you're not apparently.

And I would be a stupid mofo if I thought actual pipe organs used speakers. Stupid I am not and this is one of my fields.

And to cover all bases, there are hybrid pipe organs that only use a few pipes and use speakers for the rest of the sounds also. I've seen Rodgers that go the hybrid route ..... I think Allen used to also and there are, of course, smaller manufacturers although I bet they're getting scarce nowadays.

And small wall-mount speakers ..... which is what he specifically asked about ain't gonna cut it for organ.
He didn't ask about replacing everything ..... in that case you can do all sorts of things. He asked about using what they had right now and I say it won't work very well.

But yes ...... if they buy all sorts of new stuff they could make it work great.

Oh ..... and running an amp into a direct box with no actual load isn't such a great idea either. Gonna have to have a power soak of some kind also although there are DI's that have that.
 
Lt. Bob said:
did you catch where I said pipe organ type organ?
Click to expand...

Nope. Sorry about that. I don't have the same exposure to that stuff as you seem to so I'll take your word on the specifics.

Lt. Bob said:
And small wall-mount speakers ..... which is what he specifically asked about ain't gonna cut it for organ.
He didn't ask about replacing everything ..... in that case you can do all sorts of things. He asked about using what they had right now and I say it won't work very well.

But yes ...... if they buy all sorts of new stuff they could make it work great.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much where I was headed. If they want to re-engineer the whole thing it can be done, but it will cost money.
 
bouldersoundguy said:
That's pretty much where I was headed. If they want to re-engineer the whole thing it can be done, but it will cost money.
Click to expand...
absolutely ..... it really all depends on how much cash they want to use.
And I have no doubt that they could make everythinjg sound better than it currently does.
And it wouldn't have to cost a LOT compared to the overall budget of the church either. But my experiences with churches mostly seem to be them wanting to not spend enough for such projects.
 
Hi all,

Thanks for the enthusiastic replies! This is not a pipe organ, though we do have one of those as well. It is a Johannus electric organ that has a built in amp, which currently outputs to 4 speakers with 12" woofers. We then have Yamaha PA speakers of a similar size for the rest of the instruments, microphones, etc. So, we are trying to find a way to combine both systems to avoid having to mount 6 speakers.

Is it possible to use a DI to plug the organ into the current PA system? I have seen DIs with 10db pads, but no more than that. Wouldn't it have to decrease the power of the signal as well? It would also have to have regular speaker wire on one side, and 1/4" on the other...

The small speakers may not do the organ justice, but at the very least, we would like to use the current PA system.

Thanks in advance for your assistance!

Milkman
 
There are DIs with sufficient padding to accommodate speaker output, but there are other problems that brings up.

Why not borrow or rent an electronic keyboard with good organ sounds and connect that to the PA? That would be a good test of the PA for how it sounds with the organ mixed with the rest of the musicians. The organist may need a powered monitor so they can control how they hear themselves without depending on the main speakers.
 
not much more to say. Basically you can't do what your original question asked which is to run multiple amps into the same speakers.
You can, however, find ways to take those amp outputs of the organ and reduce them in level to where you can send them to a mixing board.
 
The direct box you refer to can take speaker level input according to the manual, but that just raises a bunch of other problems.
 
I have KRK Rokit 5's at my computer station. Recently I set up a Tascam TSR-8 16 channel studio connected to the computer. Because there is an inherent delay in the signal sent through the computer, I needed to connect my mixing board to the speakers. As it turns out I have my computer line out and my mixer line out both connected to the KRKs. But, what makes this work is I am using both unbalanced and balanced inputs, so the inputs are isolated. It was a great workaround for the delay problem. Good luck with your project.

VP
 
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