Audio interface for reamping

[ririya]

I actually just re-read your OP, & yeah dude, you need another interface...You'll need one with mic inputs to use real mics dude....

When i originally posted the thread i had the line 6 toneport gx. Now im with a mbox mini that has a single input for either a 1/4 instrument or a xlr mic cable. But i actually dont understand the difference. Is it about the input level, impedance or something like that?

About the extra outputs. On the mbox mini the main knob also controls the 2 outputs which mirror the headphone output. But think i can see a way around this. I think i just need to find the optimal configuration and never touch that again and I dont actually need to monitor anything while im reamping.

About the cables, im using mogami gold 18", best cables i've ever had but i think they are a little too long and they are compromising the tone. Im gonna try to replace everything with patch cables to see if the loss is reduced.

 

[minerman]

When i originally posted the thread i had the line 6 toneport gx. Now im with a mbox mini that has a single input for either a 1/4 instrument or a xlr mic cable. But i actually dont understand the difference. Is it about the input level, impedance or something like that?

You should be fine to record one mic at a time, I thought you were still using the Line 6 Toneport....sorry, my mistake...

About the extra outputs. On the mbox mini the main knob also controls the 2 outputs which mirror the headphone output. But think i can see a way around this. I think i just need to find the optimal configuration and never touch that again and I dont actually need to monitor anything while im reamping.

Well, you actually do need to be able to monitor while you're re-amping, or you won't be able to hear what's being recorded...I use headphones to find the mic placement (in general..), so you need to be able to listen to what you're doing....But, if you've got that all dialed in/ready to record, no you don't need to monitor anything...

About the cables, im using mogami gold 18", best cables i've ever had but i think they are a little too long and they are compromising the tone. Im gonna try to replace everything with patch cables to see if the loss is reduced.

Dude, I can use a 20 foot cable with my setup, & it doesn't change the tone...

What I think you need is a TRS to XLR cable to go from one of your monitor outputs to the Radial box, then a guitar cable going from the Radial to your amp....You'll have to adjust the output level by adjusting the Mbox's main output to match the signal a guitar would put out...Or, get another interface that has extra outputs that you can adjust & leave set...Otherwise, you'll have to keep swapping cables & twisting knobs every time you re-amp, which would be ok if you got your levels sorted, just sayin'...

 

[ashcat_lt]

Dumping half of the balanced connection drops 6db to begin with. The headphone out is already unbalanced and a bit hotter signal.

Cable capacitance creates a Low Pass Filter, so can't cause bass loss. It'll drop some treble, but nothing you'll miss from an electric guitar on the run from interface to reamp box even if you've got a 100' snake between them. If the output from the reamp is actually (relatively) high Z like a guitar pickup, there could be some noticeable loss from the very top end with a long cable there. Still no bass loss, though.

The interface output is undoubtedly capacitor coupled to the outside world, and if the input of the reamp is lower Z than the interface expects to see, that could cause bass loss. Also, a cheap transformer between the interface and the amp (a cheap "impedance matching" transformer to get from 1/4" to XLR, or a compromise made by your reamp manufacturer) could very definitely drop some bass.

The best answer is always straight wire and unity gain all the way through, unless that causes some problem.

 

[ririya]

Hi all thx for the info. I think the xlr adapter is causing some of the bass loss. Im gonna try to get a decent cable instead.

 

[ririya]

You should be fine to record one mic at a time, I thought you were still using the Line 6 Toneport....sorry, my mistake...


Well, you actually do need to be able to monitor while you're re-amping, or you won't be able to hear what's being recorded...I use headphones to find the mic placement (in general..), so you need to be able to listen to what you're doing....But, if you've got that all dialed in/ready to record, no you don't need to monitor anything...


Dude, I can use a 20 foot cable with my setup, & it doesn't change the tone...

What I think you need is a TRS to XLR cable to go from one of your monitor outputs to the Radial box, then a guitar cable going from the Radial to your amp....You'll have to adjust the output level by adjusting the Mbox's main output to match the signal a guitar would put out...Or, get another interface that has extra outputs that you can adjust & leave set...Otherwise, you'll have to keep swapping cables & twisting knobs every time you re-amp, which would be ok if you got your levels sorted, just sayin'...

Im thinking of getting a Maudio fast track pro instead of the mBox, what do you think? Its got 4 outputs, although the 2 extra ones are rca.

 

[minerman]

Im thinking of getting a Maudio fast track pro instead of the mBox, what do you think? Its got 4 outputs, although the 2 extra ones are rca.

Dude, you can do whatever you want, but I'd personally get an interface with 1/4" outs myself...Depending on your monitors, you might use the Fast Track Pro with the rca outs, but I think anytime you have to use any kind of adapter, you're making a compromise in your signal, but that's just my opinion...

If it's a $$$ thing, just keep saving up until you can get an interface that will give you what you need right now, plus will let you grow/expand in the future...

 

[ririya]

Dude, you can do whatever you want, but I'd personally get an interface with 1/4" outs myself...Depending on your monitors, you might use the Fast Track Pro with the rca outs, but I think anytime you have to use any kind of adapter, you're making a compromise in your signal, but that's just my opinion...

If it's a $$$ thing, just keep saving up until you can get an interface that will give you what you need right now, plus will let you grow/expand in the future...

Alright some other people advised me not to do that.

So, i noticed some interfaces have an independent volume knob for the headphones, like the focusrite 2i2 and the presonus boxes. But as i seen in pictures that also seems to be the case for the komplete audio 6. Isnt that good enough for monitoring and reamping at the same time? My concern is just having to keep changing the volume for the headphones and the reamp and while in this back and forth process do something stupid.

I returned the mbox and now im down to 3 choices, the komplete audio 6, a focusrite 2i2 or a presonus box, those already in descending price order.

 

[ecc83]

The KA6 will give you the extra line outs (an ins) that you need. It will also give you the lowest latency of any interface known to me under about $500! Low latency is I think going to be important if you are ever adding tracks to a re amped signal?

And yes, my suggestion of trying the headphone feed was just to solve the sound/hum issues. I can see that doing so leads to operation difficulties! One problem at a time is all this old, med ridden brain can cope with! And do get one of those cheap ground isolators, always handy and IMHO you have reached a point in your recording work where you need to learn to solder and learn to make simple cables and if you don't already have one, a $20 digital multimeter is almost vital.

Dave.

 

[minerman]

So, i noticed some interfaces have an independent volume knob for the headphones, like the focusrite 2i2 and the presonus boxes. But as i seen in pictures that also seems to be the case for the komplete audio 6. Isnt that good enough for monitoring and reamping at the same time? My concern is just having to keep changing the volume for the headphones and the reamp and while in this back and forth process do something stupid.

The KA6 will give you the extra line outs (an ins) that you need. It will also give you the lowest latency of any interface known to me under about $500! Low latency is I think going to be important if you are ever adding tracks to a re amped signal?

^this.....is why you need an interface with 1/4" line outs...you don't have to mess with volume knobs at all, that's controlled by your daw, & if you do have to raise/lower your signal, you can control it much easier (I use Reaper, & can type in any value, I'm sure other daw's are the same)...I highly recommend the KA6, it's about $100 cheaper now than it was when I bought mine...I've never had a problem out of it, & I leave my re-amp box connected all the time, I never unplug it (I even have track presets made for my re-amping tracks that saves my settings for the little gain boost I mentioned)....

Just keep saving up if you don't have enough $$$ right now, you'll get there...

 

[ririya]

^this.....is why you need an interface with 1/4" line outs...you don't have to mess with volume knobs at all, that's controlled by your daw, & if you do have to raise/lower your signal, you can control it much easier (I use Reaper, & can type in any value, I'm sure other daw's are the same)...I highly recommend the KA6, it's about $100 cheaper now than it was when I bought mine...I've never had a problem out of it, & I leave my re-amp box connected all the time, I never unplug it (I even have track presets made for my re-amping tracks that saves my settings for the little gain boost I mentioned)....

Just keep saving up if you don't have enough $$$ right now, you'll get there...

Thx for all the advices guys, i found a great deal on an used ka6 for 100 bucks. Lets just wait for it to arrive now =)

 

[ririya]

My KA6 just arrived. Everything is working fine, im reamping from output number 3, and the problem with the main volume control is gone.

However, I'm still getting the BASS loss!

I got rid of the adapter and bought a real Mogami gold XLR to TRS cable so i should have a very good signal.

Now i really dont know what else to do.

 

[ecc83]

My KA6 just arrived. Everything is working fine, im reamping from output number 3, and the problem with the main volume control is gone.

However, I'm still getting the BASS loss!

I got rid of the adapter and bought a real Mogami gold XLR to TRS cable so i should have a very good signal.

Now i really dont know what else to do.

Ok, let's back up and take it one step at a time?

What does the ch 3 signal out of the KA6 sound like when you route it to the cans output on the interface. Ok? If not back up and fix it.

If the signal is ok I am not sure where it goes next? If I can assume it is going thru' something proper, what does the amp signal sound like?

Come back Rubber Duck.

Dave.

 

[ririya]

Ok, let's back up and take it one step at a time?

What does the ch 3 signal out of the KA6 sound like when you route it to the cans output on the interface. Ok? If not back up and fix it.

If the signal is ok I am not sure where it goes next? If I can assume it is going thru' something proper, what does the amp signal sound like?

Come back Rubber Duck.

Dave.

So im trying to replicate the recorded signal in two different ways:

Output 3 directly into Input 1: the signal gets clipped because its way too high
Output 3 -> reamp box -> Input 1: the signal is lower and sounds different frequency wise

However comparing a dry and dull sound to another dry and dull sound is hard because they both sound awful. The real difference comes from plugging the guitar right into the amp and doing the whole reamp path. It seems im missing some good low/medium frequencies that make the tone come alive.

I also tried plugging ouput 3 right into the amp without the reamp box. The good frequencies are still missing.

Im using 2 different tube amps, a Marshall TSL 60 and Peavey Valveking MH20, they both show the same result.

I wonder if i should do something different to capture the dry signal, im just plugging the guitar into input 1 and giving it a go. However since im failing the replicate the recorded track, i dont think thats the problem

Also i havent tried the amp in higher volumes to see if the difference becomes smaller. I cant do it at home and thats the reason i want to reamp, so i can record at home and worry about that later. I also havent tried miking the amp and recording, because in the very end the final recorded tone might not be that different. However I just want to have the best tone as possible coming out from the amp.

 

[minerman]

Are you sure the level coming from the re-amper is pretty much the same as plugging straight into the amp??? I have to bump my signal from the interface into the re-amp box a couple/few db's to match it up...

I don't know for sure, but low signal going into an amp may cause what's happening there...

 

[ririya]

Are you sure the level coming from the re-amper is pretty much the same as plugging straight into the amp??? I have to bump my signal from the interface into the re-amp box a couple/few db's to match it up...

I don't know for sure, but low signal going into an amp may cause what's happening there...

Im doing my best to match the signals, i'm adding 12 db before sending it to the reamp, that's the maximum i can do in sonar. If the signal is really low yes there's a big difference, however i notice after a certain level increasing the output doesnt make a difference in the tone.

I just found something else!

The recorded signal with the toneport gx sounds better than the recorded signal with the KA6! The KA6 recording sounds a little glassy and trembly, while the toneport recording sounds more bassy. When sending those two to the amp, the toneport gx recording sounds good to me (although not yet exactly the same as the direct input), but the KA6 recording sounds a little dull.

 

[minerman]

That's the same db level (+12db) on a single send for Reaper too...I've found with my setup, about +3db is about right, but another forum member here says he has to drop his level from his interface to the RMP...I guess it just depends on the individual's setup/gear & what sound each is after...

When you record your di into the KA6, do you have the instrument/line button switched to instrument??? That could be a reason your signal is different...I had both a Toneport & a Tascam US122, but never really noticed any difference in the quality difference of any of 'em.....

Where is the signal hitting going into your interface??? Do you have the gain on the pre-amp up enough for a decent signal??

Do you have the volume on the RMP all the way up???

Does it make any difference if you flip the phase/polarity button on the RMP???

Btw, I'm not yelling, the things I typed in bold might be part of your problem, & I'm just tryin' to help you out here...

 

[ririya]

That's the same db level (+12db) on a single send for Reaper too...I've found with my setup, about +3db is about right, but another forum member here says he has to drop his level from his interface to the RMP...I guess it just depends on the individual's setup/gear & what sound each is after...

When you record your di into the KA6, do you have the instrument/line button switched to instrument??? That could be a reason your signal is different...I had both a Toneport & a Tascam US122, but never really noticed any difference in the quality difference of any of 'em.....

Where is the signal hitting going into your interface??? Do you have the gain on the pre-amp up enough for a decent signal??

Do you have the volume on the RMP all the way up???

Does it make any difference if you flip the phase/polarity button on the RMP???

Btw, I'm not yelling, the things I typed in bold might be part of your problem, & I'm just tryin' to help you out here...

Haha thats ok dude, and thx for all the help so far.

Yes the switch is set to instrument and the gain level is set to the middle, i found that it's very close to the point where it starts clipping. The rmp volume is all the way up.

By the phase polarity button do you mean the pin-1 ground button? this button doesnt change the tone, but it eliminates a constant high pitch noise. actually the high pitch noise continues there but it becomes very low, we can still hear it but its not irritating

 

[minerman]

To be honest, I'm actually stumped man, it took me a little while to figure out my levels in my daw, but I've honestly really never had any issues re-amping with the Radial RMP....I did have lots of problems before I got it, but again, no trouble at all...Sorry I can't help you figure it out...

I'm assuming all your cables are good?? Dunno man....Have you tried the Sonar forum (if there is one)??? Since we literally have the same setup (interface/re-amper), maybe it's a software thing...Dunno man, I'm stumped here...

 

[ririya]

thats ok, i think i can try to requalize the amp to get it sounding closer to what i expect. My cables are all mogami gold, i made sure to use the best i can afford.

ill also try to add some gain to the sonar track, cause the signal starts clipping before hitting sonar's peak and as a result i still have a low level signal recorded

 

[minerman]

Your re-amped signal should be the same coming from your interface > re-amper > amp....

Do you have the di track's panning centered???

Do you have the di track's level at "0"???

Are there any effects on the di track???

Dunno about Sonar, but in Reaper, if these 2 things aren't centered & at "0", then the signal will be weaker...

Can you post a screenshot of Sonar so we might be able to help you here???



Like I keep saying, I've never had any problems with my KA6/RMP like this, unless it was something I'd overlooked (like the panning & track level)...