Amp and mixer question....What comes first in a live setup?

S

sjaguar13

New member
In a live setup, does the guitarist go to his Marshall head, to the mixer, to the speakers? How about to his Marshall head, mixer, amp, then speakers? Straight to mixer, Marshall head, then speakers?
 
You go to the Marshall. Thats it. If youi want to mic the marshall you can send that into the house PA system.

Anything else is just stupid.
 
A friend's band is playing in a hall where speeches are given. The only problem is, the only speakers are 2 old ones hanging on the wall. The owners don't really want us to use them, and if we do, we have to pay more, add a deposit, and figure out how to plug them in. We're looking on using our own equipment, but I never had to do live sound. Just trying to figure out where stuff goes.
 
The Bassist on the other hand usually plugs into a direct box which then splits the signal, one (unmodified) signal goes to the onstage bass amp and the other converts to xlr (mic cable) and goes to the mixing board. You can mic the bassamp instead if you want but going direct is a lot simpler and has fewer potential problems.
 
The bassist from one of the bands has a direct box (I think). I have my mics for the rest. What about the drums, would I still want to just over head mic, or would I even want to mic it at all? I know at the local club, they mic the snare and bass drum, but I don't know about the rest. Also, how many amps, as in watts, would be needed for the PA. Would I need 2, one for the mains and the other for the monitors at about 1,000 watts each?
 
sjaguar13 said:
A friend's band is playing in a hall where speeches are given. The only problem is, the only speakers are 2 old ones hanging on the wall. The owners don't really want us to use them, and if we do, we have to pay more, add a deposit, and figure out how to plug them in. We're looking on using our own equipment, but I never had to do live sound. Just trying to figure out where stuff goes.
Click to expand...

Tell that old fart that if he wants a deposite he can get his rankety ass up there and hook them up for you.

Did I hear you say Marshall head?
So you have a cab?

What kind of wattage are we talking?

Tube?

You might no even need a PA.

But as for hooking up the speakers......

Just go the the house mixer and find the monitor outs, then see if there is a power amp or if the the speakers are active (have an amplifier inside).

Connect accordingly.
 
The band has everything they need as in speakers and heads, except the singer. He has a couple of speakers, but nothing really good to power them. The house mixer is an old Fender. The thing is huge and only has 12 channels. We don't plan on using it. We will be bringing a Mackie. The speakers aren't powered. How many amps and watts are we going to need?
 
A normal small/medium gig would usually be set up like this:


Kick : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 1
Snare : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 2
HiHats : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 3
Tom 1 : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 4
Tom 2 : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 5
Tom 3 : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 6
Overhead Left : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 7
Overhead Right : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 8
Bass gtr : DI Box -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 9
(DI 1/4" parallel out to bassamp)

Guitar amp : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 10
Guitar amp : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 11
Acoustic gtr : DI (or mic) -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 12
Keyboards : DI Box -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 13
(DI 1/4" parallel out to Keyboard amp)

Keyboards : DI Box -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 14
(DI 1/4" parallel out to Keyboard amp)

Percussion : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 15
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 16
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 17
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 18
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 19

*Note: Drum machines, electronic percussion, sequencers,
cd players and all other line level 'instruments' are usually
connected the same way as keyboards.
If there are no keyboard or acoustic gtr amps on stage
then those instruments will need to be monitored
through the stage monitors.


Ok, so now you have all your inputs into the board, obviously your input list will vary but I just listed the common ones.
Next we need to connect the outputs and Auxillary sends.

There are 2 basic types of auxillary sends pre fader and post fader (before and after channel output fader)

Pre fader takes it's signal before the output fader so that whaterver you do with the fader has no effect on the aux send, in other words you can turn the fader all the way down and not cut the signal to the auxillary, for this reason monitor sends are usually pre fader.

Post fader takes it's signal after the channel output fader so pulling down the fader will also reduce the level going to the aux
outs, this is normally used for things like reverb and delay etc.
because you want them to fade to silence too if you pull the channel fader all the way down.

Main outs connect like this:

Mixing board main outs -> 31 band graphic eq -> snake
-> crossover -> power amps -> main speakers.

Monitors connect like this:

Stage Mix 1, stage front wedge monitors.

Mixing board auxillary 1 output (at least aux 1 and 2 are usually
pre fader, it shoud be labelled somewhere) -> 31 band
graphic eq -> snake -> monitor amps -> front
monitors.

Stage Mix 2, Drummer's monitor.

Mixer Aux 2 out (or any other pre fader aux) -> 31 band graphic
eq -> monitor amps -> Drummer's monitor.

Other stage mixes : repeat to taste, or until you run out of pre fader auxes or amps. :D


Effects connect like this:

(Every mixer has a different number of auxes and pre/post assignment so these aux numbers are arbitrary, pre fader auxes are USUALLY but not always the first 2 or 4, and post fader auxes are usually the last 2 or 4.)

Mixer aux 4 output (post fader aux) -> nice really expensive vocal reverb unit -> channel 22 line input.

Mixer aux 5 output (post fader aux) -> nice really expensive vocal delay unit (or chorus or whatever) -> channel 23 line input.

Mixer aux 6 output (post fader aux) -> slightly less nice and maybe not as expensive drum reverb unit. -> channel 24 line
input.


Even though most boards have aux returns designed for the effects I prefer to return them to channels since I can then use the channel eq to fine tune them, muting them is quicker and the
controls are closer at hand.


Compressors and gates:

Compressors and gates connect to individual channels using the channels 'Insert' connections and a special cable called a, yup you guessed it, insert cable.

My order of preference for prioritizing compressor assignment is:

Lead vocal
other vocals
bass gtr
kick drum
acoustic gtr

they dont always need it and it's really a judgement call based on the players ability to control their own dynamics. I always use a comp on lead vocal though.

Good starting point for vocals:

Threshold 0db
Ratio 4:1
attack and release medium or auto
Output +5 db
 
vox,

nice reply! I admire your willingness to explain in detail how "you" would hook up a typical live sound rig. Everyone has their little "I prefers" and all that jazz, but you pretty much laid it out straight forward! Nice work!:)
 
vox said:
A normal small/medium gig would usually be set up like this:


Kick : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 1
Snare : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 2
HiHats : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 3
Tom 1 : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 4
Tom 2 : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 5
Tom 3 : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 6
Overhead Left : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 7
Overhead Right : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 8
Bass gtr : DI Box -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 9
(DI 1/4" parallel out to bassamp)

Guitar amp : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 10
Guitar amp : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 11
Acoustic gtr : DI (or mic) -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 12
Keyboards : DI Box -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 13
(DI 1/4" parallel out to Keyboard amp)

Keyboards : DI Box -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 14
(DI 1/4" parallel out to Keyboard amp)

Percussion : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 15
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 16
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 17
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 18
Vocal : Mic -> cable -> snake -> mixer ch 19

*Note: Drum machines, electronic percussion, sequencers,
cd players and all other line level 'instruments' are usually
connected the same way as keyboards.
If there are no keyboard or acoustic gtr amps on stage
then those instruments will need to be monitored
through the stage monitors.


Ok, so now you have all your inputs into the board, obviously your input list will vary but I just listed the common ones.
Next we need to connect the outputs and Auxillary sends.

There are 2 basic types of auxillary sends pre fader and post fader (before and after channel output fader)

Pre fader takes it's signal before the output fader so that whaterver you do with the fader has no effect on the aux send, in other words you can turn the fader all the way down and not cut the signal to the auxillary, for this reason monitor sends are usually pre fader.

Post fader takes it's signal after the channel output fader so pulling down the fader will also reduce the level going to the aux
outs, this is normally used for things like reverb and delay etc.
because you want them to fade to silence too if you pull the channel fader all the way down.

Main outs connect like this:

Mixing board main outs -> 31 band graphic eq -> snake
-> crossover -> power amps -> main speakers.

Monitors connect like this:

Stage Mix 1, stage front wedge monitors.

Mixing board auxillary 1 output (at least aux 1 and 2 are usually
pre fader, it shoud be labelled somewhere) -> 31 band
graphic eq -> snake -> monitor amps -> front
monitors.

Stage Mix 2, Drummer's monitor.

Mixer Aux 2 out (or any other pre fader aux) -> 31 band graphic
eq -> monitor amps -> Drummer's monitor.

Other stage mixes : repeat to taste, or until you run out of pre fader auxes or amps. :D


Effects connect like this:

(Every mixer has a different number of auxes and pre/post assignment so these aux numbers are arbitrary, pre fader auxes are USUALLY but not always the first 2 or 4, and post fader auxes are usually the last 2 or 4.)

Mixer aux 4 output (post fader aux) -> nice really expensive vocal reverb unit -> channel 22 line input.

Mixer aux 5 output (post fader aux) -> nice really expensive vocal delay unit (or chorus or whatever) -> channel 23 line input.

Mixer aux 6 output (post fader aux) -> slightly less nice and maybe not as expensive drum reverb unit. -> channel 24 line
input.


Even though most boards have aux returns designed for the effects I prefer to return them to channels since I can then use the channel eq to fine tune them, muting them is quicker and the
controls are closer at hand.


Compressors and gates:

Compressors and gates connect to individual channels using the channels 'Insert' connections and a special cable called a, yup you guessed it, insert cable.

My order of preference for prioritizing compressor assignment is:

Lead vocal
other vocals
bass gtr
kick drum
acoustic gtr

they dont always need it and it's really a judgement call based on the players ability to control their own dynamics. I always use a comp on lead vocal though.

Good starting point for vocals:

Threshold 0db
Ratio 4:1
attack and release medium or auto
Output +5 db
Click to expand...

Sorry, I just wanted to make this page as long as possible.:D
 
...... this thread is becoming insanely painful to the brain at 2am haha...

Some people don't have this entire arsenal of mics/gear whatever at their disposal. If you're doing a show at something like a Grange Hall or veterans hall, etc etc, you can entirely get away with mic'ing only the vocals, any line-level instruments (as mentioned above by Vox), and the kickdrum just for that punch that gets lost in the whole of things live. Cymbals, toms, and snare will cut through easily.

If i had to do a show with only a barebones amount of gear and whatnot, i'd have vocals, kick, and bass running through the pa. I've done countless shows with just that with even mediocre PA systems, and it works. But just that, it "works". I've also put on shows where we had the full sound system like Vox suggests, and the difference is night and day.

Plus, you can record the whole show nicely that way. Cheap way of making another CD, honestly. :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top