I'm in a band that just released an EP using programmed drums. We found a drummer, and we need a way for him to learn to play the way they were played in the EP. Does anyone have any experience teaching a drummer from programmed drums? I can't send him the midi file, and I thought about making drum tabs for each song, but does anyone have any suggestions?
Teaching a real drummer programmed drum tracks
- Thread starter JJBreeze
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My thoughts exactly.
Farview
Well-known member
If he can't figure it out from listening to it, use the midi file to render a drum only mix.
Hopefully, when you programmed the drum parts, you took into account what it is possible for a drummer to play. I've had people program drum parts that it would take.at least 6 limbs to play...
Hopefully, when you programmed the drum parts, you took into account what it is possible for a drummer to play. I've had people program drum parts that it would take.at least 6 limbs to play...
I sent him audio files of just the drum track, and the drum track with vocals. He should be able to figure it out and play something that sounds just like it. I know he won't be able to play them the EXACT same way they were programmed, which is why I was just wondering if there was a way other people did this. But him listening to them will work for my case.
EDIT: And yes, I program drums being aware of using only two hands and two feet
EDIT: And yes, I program drums being aware of using only two hands and two feet
gecko zzed
Grumpy Mod
I quite often use programmed drums to provide the rhythmic structure for a song while I'm working on it. Sometimes it's very simple, and sometimes it gets complicated.
Then when it comes time to record real drums, the drummer sets up, I scatter some mikes around, hit record and off he goes. I don't really care that the real drummer's playing is not a replica of the programmed track, so long as he captures the general feel of what the song needs. And in many cases I would not want it to be a replica, because what's programmed is, of necessity, less nuanced than any drummer's playing.
Some drummers like to hear an MP3 of the track beforehand, but the one I use regularly is happy to hear the song once, make a note of key rhythmic elements, then launch straight into it.
Then when it comes time to record real drums, the drummer sets up, I scatter some mikes around, hit record and off he goes. I don't really care that the real drummer's playing is not a replica of the programmed track, so long as he captures the general feel of what the song needs. And in many cases I would not want it to be a replica, because what's programmed is, of necessity, less nuanced than any drummer's playing.
Some drummers like to hear an MP3 of the track beforehand, but the one I use regularly is happy to hear the song once, make a note of key rhythmic elements, then launch straight into it.
I think I might do it like that before my band releases our next album. The problem was that our drummer didn't come along until after we had already released one.
rob aylestone
Moderator
There are two sorts of real decent drummers. Those that read proper drum music and those that don't. The ones that don't can pick everything up by listening, and the readers just play what you give them. The best readers also bend what you write slightly to fit the song. I don't know any drummers who read drum tab, and I've never even heard of it! A poor guitarist can usually get through when they learn by listening, but a poor drummer is just a poor drummer, and they can't pickup clever stuff by listening, and never learned to read.
Dicus
Enthusiastic Member
Haha, it's a bit like that I guess yes. Drummers who learned to read and drummers who where so good at listening they never had to, the rest aren't probably the ones you'd like in your band (though I'm always open to exceptions 
). I tend to teach my pupils how to listen and how to read, those are my favourite drummers...
However, the suggestion I haven't seen yet try and find software that lets you print your midi-file for drums. I use Guitar Pro 6 and like it very much but there are probably tons of free transcription programs you can put midi in and get drumming sheets out. You could use tabs, I have sometimes used them, but they aren't as clear and well-known as regular drum sheets (which actually work more like tab then like piano music, since the height of the note indicates the cymbal/drum instead of a pitch).
And like said, if he can't read he should listen to it. Let's however hope he'll do both and improve your drum parts so they'll work better on the real kit. If he can't do that either, well...
). I tend to teach my pupils how to listen and how to read, those are my favourite drummers...However, the suggestion I haven't seen yet try and find software that lets you print your midi-file for drums. I use Guitar Pro 6 and like it very much but there are probably tons of free transcription programs you can put midi in and get drumming sheets out. You could use tabs, I have sometimes used them, but they aren't as clear and well-known as regular drum sheets (which actually work more like tab then like piano music, since the height of the note indicates the cymbal/drum instead of a pitch).
And like said, if he can't read he should listen to it. Let's however hope he'll do both and improve your drum parts so they'll work better on the real kit. If he can't do that either, well...
sheboygandrums
New member
JJBreeze,
If he can read notation, can you print it from your MIDI file? I can give you some guidance on this. If he can't read notation, he might like drum tabs, so you could do that.
I'm a professional transcriber and often write out (transcribe) drum parts of songs my students want to learn. Most of my students find this very helpful since they can read notation.
See How to Write Drum Notation on my site. Might be all you need to get your drummer music.
– Jamison
If he can read notation, can you print it from your MIDI file? I can give you some guidance on this. If he can't read notation, he might like drum tabs, so you could do that.
I'm a professional transcriber and often write out (transcribe) drum parts of songs my students want to learn. Most of my students find this very helpful since they can read notation.
See How to Write Drum Notation on my site. Might be all you need to get your drummer music.
– Jamison
As a drummer, I've had to lay tracks many times based off a demo that contains MIDI drums (or drum tracks laid by another drummer that did not work for various reasons).
If a drummer can not listen to a track and figure out how to play a part (unless the program drums are so poorly laid out that no human could reproduce) - then that drummer should not be playing a session - and probably is not good enough to play a gig.
Most of the drummers I know who can read (including myself) rarely have to depend on a chart, unless the piece is symphonic or movie cues, etc. - I suspect that in 99% of cases, a decent drummer can listen to a piece of music a couple of times and figure out what type of drum groove the music needs. Hopefully the artist/producer wants a human interpretation, rather than trying to ask a human to play like the machine.
Now I have done a couple of sessions (thankfully they are rare) where the writer is acting as a producer and is so convinced that his/her program parts are the only possible way to play the piece. Often, these people will not be satisfied with anything a real drummer lays down. In one case, after a few takes that the writer nit picked to death - I simply packed up my gear and politely told him that he could save himself time, money and headache if he simply used his programmed parts. I don't think he ever released the CD because he was never satisfied with anything and musician played - yet he also was not satisfied with the parts he programmed.
If a drummer can not listen to a track and figure out how to play a part (unless the program drums are so poorly laid out that no human could reproduce) - then that drummer should not be playing a session - and probably is not good enough to play a gig.
Most of the drummers I know who can read (including myself) rarely have to depend on a chart, unless the piece is symphonic or movie cues, etc. - I suspect that in 99% of cases, a decent drummer can listen to a piece of music a couple of times and figure out what type of drum groove the music needs. Hopefully the artist/producer wants a human interpretation, rather than trying to ask a human to play like the machine.
Now I have done a couple of sessions (thankfully they are rare) where the writer is acting as a producer and is so convinced that his/her program parts are the only possible way to play the piece. Often, these people will not be satisfied with anything a real drummer lays down. In one case, after a few takes that the writer nit picked to death - I simply packed up my gear and politely told him that he could save himself time, money and headache if he simply used his programmed parts. I don't think he ever released the CD because he was never satisfied with anything and musician played - yet he also was not satisfied with the parts he programmed.
I would not worry about getting him to play note for note what you recorded. That's a quick way to stifle that creativity he could bring to your music and make the band a chore. Fine if you're paying him. Otherwise expect to be looking for another drummer sooner than you think. The good ones are in demand.
Steenamaroo
...
I agree with what's been said, really.
I'm actually in the process of doing just this at the minute. If the drummer can't listen to the tracks and work out what's going on for himself, you need a new drummer.
Also agree with the suggestion of not trying to make him play beat for beat what you programmed.
Allow him some freedom, because that freedom is actually the difference between real drums and programmed drums.
Let him do what he does naturally, around your basic foundation, and your tracks will benefit greatly.
Dicus
Enthusiastic Member
I do agree with what has been said. Would like to add some things.
You might also consider playing the songs with the rest of the band without drums and not send him the tracks beforehand. Have a look at what he comes up with. If you like your track better, or parts of it that you can always tell him to play that.
Never underestimate what timing does to a groove. Let 10 drummers play the same groove and (if you're ears are trained enough) you'll hear the difference. This could be the case if he plays the groove but it doesn't sound sound like your MIDI track. In that case first ask the drummer to change his timing ('more laidback', 'more in the pocket' or 'rush it a bit'/'make it sound faster') that does a lot to a track...
Haha I once tried to put my laid-back drum parts into MIDI and to make it sound like I played them I ended up with used 64th triplets and stuff like that to make it groove...
You might also consider playing the songs with the rest of the band without drums and not send him the tracks beforehand. Have a look at what he comes up with. If you like your track better, or parts of it that you can always tell him to play that.
Never underestimate what timing does to a groove. Let 10 drummers play the same groove and (if you're ears are trained enough) you'll hear the difference. This could be the case if he plays the groove but it doesn't sound sound like your MIDI track. In that case first ask the drummer to change his timing ('more laidback', 'more in the pocket' or 'rush it a bit'/'make it sound faster') that does a lot to a track...
Haha I once tried to put my laid-back drum parts into MIDI and to make it sound like I played them I ended up with used 64th triplets and stuff like that to make it groove...