Making sense of the different hi-hat notes available in various drum software

rsilverst

New member
Hi -- I tried posting this over on The Gear Page forum, but realized after the fact that it probably wasn't the right venue for the question, so I'm posting here.

tl;dr -- why does some software offer tip + shank (SSD), some offer tip + edge (Toontrack), and some all three (Logic)?

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I am an owner of a all three of the above mentioned packages, and there are times where I am thinking I may want to program using one tool, but then use the kits from another one. I already understand all the gotchas about how Logic does its midi mappings, but the question I am trying to answer is how to reconcile the differences in the actual hi-hat "hits" that each kit makes available, when trying to transpose between tools.

Because I am not a drummer, I am a bit at a loss as to the nuance of why some of the packages offer edge versus shank, or if they're using them synonymously, or what...

Logic's drums use the following (in their advanced GM+ mapping, which I think is most comparable to other tools:

Hi-Hat Tip (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed)
Hi-Hat Shank (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed)
Hi-Hat Edge (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed)
Hi-Hat Foot Close
Hi-Hat Foot Splash

EZDrummer/Superior Drummer use:

Closed Tip
Closed Edge
Tight Tip
Tight Edge
Open (varying degrees 1 - 5) -- ambiguous as to whether it's tip or edge...
Open Pedal ["foot splash"]
Closed Pedal ["foot close"]

Slate uses:

Hi-Hat Tip (5 varying degrees ranging from closed to open)
Hi-Hat Shank (5 varying degrees ranging from closed to open)
Hi-Hat Clamp [seems like this is "foot close"]
Hi-Hat Clamp Ring [seems like this is "foot splash"]

So... it looks like Logic offers tip, shank, and edge voicing
EZDrummer offers Tip and Edge, but no shank
Slate offers Tip and Shank, but no edge.

From what I can hear in Logic, Shank and Edge sound similar but not identical, and as you open the hi-hat, the edge sounds "more open" at a given articulation ID value, but still not the same tonality.

So is Logic providing *more* flexibility than the other packages?

Just curious what others have thought when trying to do this mix and matching between programming tool and playback tool.
 
I've only used one of the three, so I have no idea, but it LOOKS like Logic has the best thing going with all three and 1-8 variance. Having said that, I've heard some GREAT drum tracks from EZ/Superior and SSD4.

AFA what they mean to a real drummer, tip is obvious (but not complete*), shank would be hitting the top of the cymbal(s) with the shank of the stick and edge would be hitting the edge of the cymbal(s) with the shank of the stick. Not a huge difference, but tonality (as well as how the open would ring out) would be affected...don't know of that helps.

*By not complete, I mean the sounds that you can make by hitting the tip and shank of the stick on various parts of a cymbal (or hats) has never been fully explored in any sample set I've ever heard. There are multitude of differences between hitting the tip on the bell of the hats, the ring (where the bell meets the "flat", the center of the "flat" and the edge (or any other cymbal for that matter).

As a meat drummer that programs in his studio, I find that musically there are a lot of things you can do with cymbals and hats that cannot be done with SSD. Limitations we have to accept...for now.
 
What I di when trying to choose is find the one that has a length that relates to the tempo of the song and makes sense with the hat pattern.
 
.." Limitations we have to accept"...

Or, just record a real player doing the hi-hat

Well the premise was "programs in the studio", meaning in the box...so recording the hats and cymbal hits from a live kit is a bit outside that box. :)
I've got a great kit at the church, where I can't record and not enough time between services to make it worth trying to break down the kit, haul it home, set it up, tear it down, haul it back and set it back up again...Someday, I'll get some mikes (so far I have a 57 and a MXL 2001) and a portable interface down to the church and record my drum parts there...hopefully....if I hit the lotto...
 
..meaning in the box"

Well, I can really sympathize, really. But, I could just never imagine going down that path - meaning trying to get samples going. It was easier to switch from Rock to Electronic . I started with the player piano roll,, then yamaha keyboard with pads, then Yamaha stick . pads, then, I bought a snare. Probably be a Ride next. So, I can have some drum playing in there. My general plan was to rock out with the MIDI samples I get with the DAW and just toss in some real stuff. I really don't need to get hung up on MIDI drums. With Electronic, I can skate with about anything
 
:thumbs up:
It's funny to me that I can go to the church with the music on a stick, play a drum line to the music and go home with that drum line in my head, program it in as close as I can get it, and everyone will say the beat doesn't fit the music...And they're right. It sounds nothing like what I played. I've got to get better at programming my beats, or my church has got to get the drums isolated and miked :)

But forgive me, I've derailed this thread. Enough.
 
Hi-Hat Tip (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed) Tip is the tip of the drum stick, so in this case tip is how the cymbal is hit.
Hi-Hat Shank (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed) Shank is the edge of the stick. so in this case again it's how the cymbal is hit.
Hi-Hat Edge (varying degrees of open from 1 - 7, with 1 = closed) Edge is basically shank but at an angle on the edge of hats, again it's just how you hit it.
Hi-Hat Foot Close: This is the action of putting your foot down and keeping it down on a high hat pedal.
Hi-Hat Foot Splash: This is the action of putting your foot down and immediately letting the pedal come back up on a high hat pedal.
.

Hope that helps.

Some more terms you may run into with cymbal hits:

Edge: This is an area of where a cymbal is hit, think how you see people hit crashes.
Bow: Another area of where a cymbal is hit, in between the bell (center of the cymbal) and edge of the cymbal.
Bell: Center raised area of the cymbal.

the library can hit all 3 zones with different parts of the drumstick (shank, tip, brushes, mallets etc...)
 
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