Kick Drum Problems

MetalMechanik

New member
Hey everyone. I'm having some trouble recording my kick drum. I've tried many different ways to alter the sound of the kick in my recordings. Multiple mics, multiple mic positions, alternate tunings. Still, I have not found a Vinnie Paul type sound coming from my kick drum. I have achived creating a "Click" sound. But I have never gotten a full kick drum sound in my recordings. Any help would be appreciated.
 
You have to consider the possibility that there is probably some layering of different kicks going on on the recordings. If you have the means, try triggering a sample that you recorded of the click sound and some with more body together and see what you come up with. Blend to taste.

One tool that would be good for this is Drumagog. There's a demo available.
 
MetalMechanik said:
Hey everyone. I'm having some trouble recording my kick drum. I've tried many different ways to alter the sound of the kick in my recordings. Multiple mics, multiple mic positions, alternate tunings. Still, I have not found a Vinnie Paul type sound coming from my kick drum. I have achived creating a "Click" sound. But I have never gotten a full kick drum sound in my recordings. Any help would be appreciated.
Vinnie triggers his kick....so you're not going to achieve that sound with a mic.

edit; like m.r. has stated. I believe he blends the triggered sound with the acoustic sound.
 
Im sure you can dig up an article somewhere online where Vinnie discusses his techniques. I know that I have read that he tunes the head down to the point where it is about to fall off. Then he uses plastic or wood beaters and something like one of those beater pads with the metal in it for added thwak.
Unfortunately if you play with your heads tuned like this, you will have to change them alot. Im not a drummer but this has been my experience. The head will go dead alot faster when played hard with loose tunings.
 
Thanks alot, I've never been a big fan of trigger. But if I have to use them to make my kicks sound how I want them to sound, I gotta get some triggers happening on my drums. Thanks!
 
Yes it is sad, nearly all of the drums in metal now days are triggered. I look forward to the day that the "acoustic" kit is popular again.
 
why would u want that kick sound? JK, to each his own.

From what I have read, guys like Vinnie and Lars use re-20's on their kicks. They also double trigger them. One going to a brain or computer, and the other going into a gate, with a very short "open" time, for that little CLICK at the attack of the hit
 
MetalMechanik said:
Still, I have not found a Vinnie Paul type sound coming from my kick drum.

Hrm just make it sound bad and it will be close enough... hehehe....

Seriously though, you gotta do some sound replacement/triggering to get that sound... and then seriously crank the EQ around 6.2 to 8khz. Just make it as clicky and annoying as humanly possible.
 
Tune it loose, use a hard beater and a "clicker" pad, and see if you can't buy or borrow an Audix D-6. The mic pretty much wants to make that sound by itself.

But yeah, most of the drummers with that sound are sampling.
 
MetalMechanik said:
Hey everyone. I'm having some trouble recording my kick drum. I've tried many different ways to alter the sound of the kick in my recordings. Multiple mics, multiple mic positions, alternate tunings. Still, I have not found a Vinnie Paul type sound coming from my kick drum. I have achived creating a "Click" sound. But I have never gotten a full kick drum sound in my recordings. Any help would be appreciated.
Vinnie uses triggers. The sound that he triggers is layered and cannot be gotten from one drum.
 
You don't need a physical midi trigger to use a midi trigger. That is, you can use the audio you record from the drum and create midi triggers with it. Do you know how to do that? what software are you using?
 
SonicClang said:
You don't need a physical midi trigger to use a midi trigger. That is, you can use the audio you record from the drum and create midi triggers with it. Do you know how to do that? what software are you using?

Let's say he uses Logic Audio Platinum 5.
 
Well I'm not familiar with that software. In Sonar it's real easy to tell it to examine audio and create midi notes where it sees a drum hit. Then you use that midi note to trigger a sample. You can't do it real time, but for studio purposes it works quite well.
 
Drumagog is great...I'm still looking for good and more sounds with a metal purpose..the sounds included are not superb....anyone knows where to get some?

Anyway....Vinnie has an important trick to his recording of bass drums!!!!!
A COIN!!! A real straight up coin...tape it where the beater hits the head...still keep that remo/evans or preferably danmar kick pad on it and between it or else the head will crack...try this..click you..click you got ;)
 
Charlie Benante had quarters taped to his live bass drums ages ago, still a good tip.

I have taped a good amount of stuff to drum heads, the only thing that ever caused damage was a plexiglass disc that split, and then the sharp edges cut into the head. Quarters should be harmless.

Anything hard will click mightily, and cut throught the most cacophonous of bands.
 
MetalMechanik said:
Hey everyone. I'm having some trouble recording my kick drum. I've tried many different ways to alter the sound of the kick in my recordings. Multiple mics, multiple mic positions, alternate tunings. Still, I have not found a Vinnie Paul type sound coming from my kick drum. I have achived creating a "Click" sound. But I have never gotten a full kick drum sound in my recordings. Any help would be appreciated.


Okay, I'll give this a try.

What size kick?
What kind of heads?
What type of mallet?
What type of muffling?
What kind of mic?
What kind of processing gear?
What kind of Mixer?

For a Vinnie Paul type of sound, here's my suggestion.

Pinstripe on the batter side. You can use a resonant if you want. (I would - but I'vce got mic's mounted inside my drums, so I can use a full front head)
Loosen the kick head as low as it will go - We're talking "metal on the drum jingling" low. The head should be loose and flapping.

Use a felt mallet if you're worried about head durability.

Mic the Mallet spot about 6" from the mallet.

Build a Kick Tunnel in front of the kick (do a search)

Put a Mic in the Tunnel - better yet would be a speaker, because this will pic up more low end. (do a search on using a speaker as a mic)

Put each of these on it's own track.


Once you have the drumpart recorded, then gate both of these, and after gating you can compress.

The speaker/tunnel combination will allow you to have a deep low end, while the mic'ed mallet spot will give you a click sound.

This is a similar technique to how I was getting that sound in the early 90's.

For speakers, I was using a 4" Radioshack cube speaker. I took the backplate off, and replaced it with one that I made with an XLR jack on it instead of the speaker "spring" hook up, so I could just plug the speakers in.


Tim
 
i don't want to hijack the thread, but is it possible to convert an audio signal to a midi file in cubase? if so, how?
 
Funky_A said:
Anyway....Vinnie has an important trick to his recording of bass drums!!!!!
A COIN!!! A real straight up coin...tape it where the beater hits the head...still keep that remo/evans or preferably danmar kick pad on it and between it or else the head will crack...try this..click you..click you got ;)
Vinnie uses triggers. The original sound was recorded with a 24 inch tama grandstar kick, pinstripe head almost slack with a half dollar taped to the head and a plexiglass beater.

But since that fateful day in 1990, he has used triggers to trigger the sound.
 
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