Which Hi Hats?

I've abandoned my attempts to use the Octapad as a source of drum sounds and bought a cheap kit - I can hold a beat so I can learn and it'll be fun!!

I bought a Mapex M 5 piece kit but has no cymbals, I know it's personal choice but I have to start somewhere so any advice appreciated. Looking for all rounders but mostly blues /rock sound.

I'm looking at SH paiste alpha sound edge or paiste 2002 hats at the moment on the bay - is this the right direction or should I look elsewhere?

Supplementary stupid question... Do most drummers stick with the same brand / model of cymbal? Is there benefit in that?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bruce
 
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I've abandoned my attempts to use the Octapad as a source of drum sounds and bought a cheap kit - I can hold a beat so I can learn and it'll be fun!!

I bought a Mapex M 5 piece kit but has no cymbals, I know it's personal choice but I have to start somewhere so any advice appreciated. Looking for all rounders but mostly blues /rock sound.

I'm looking at SH paiste alpha sound edge or paiste 2002 hats at the moment on the bay - is this the right direction or should I look elsewhere?
Either of those would be fantastic. 2002s are a high end model from Paiste. The Alphas are mid-level, but being a sound edge design will make them a little crisper, little faster than regular hats. Their closed sound won't be quite as tight though. Either of those would be great.

Supplementary stupid question... Do most drummers stick with the same brand / model of cymbal? Is there benefit in that?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Bruce

There's no benefit to sticking with all the same cymbals, but many people do. It's just personal preference. Sometimes the sounds you want require different cymbals from different brands. Sometimes the characteristics of a specific model are what you're after. It doesn't matter.
 
Either of those would be fantastic. 2002s are a high end model from Paiste. The Alphas are mid-level, but being a sound edge design will make them a little crisper, little faster than regular hats. Their closed sound won't be quite as tight though. Either of those would be great.



There's no benefit to sticking with all the same cymbals, but many people do. It's just personal preference. Sometimes the sounds you want require different cymbals from different brands. Sometimes the characteristics of a specific model are what you're after. It doesn't matter.

All of what Greg_L already said above and I'd like to add a plug for Sabian AAX cymbals/hats if you are looking specifically for something bright that cuts through. I use AAX hi-hats and love them. Never used Paiste hats, but... I have both an AAX 16" crash and a 2002 16" crash; the Paiste crash sounds great on attack but has a really high-pitched decay tail, almost like the whine you used to hear from old televisions. It's unnoticeable in live settings, but hell on a recording (which is why I bought the Sabian AAX). Could just be my cymbal, could just be my dog ears, but once I heard it I could never un-hear it! YMMV. Experiment around at a local music store if you can and good luck getting some great hi-hats and cymbals!
 
I have a full set of 2002s, including 15" inch 2002 sound edge hats. The 2002 crashes are probably the most musical crash cymbals I've ever heard. I went through tons of models when choosing, and the 2002s just have the perfect sound to me. They're very balanced. Nothing stands out as out of place. Very smooth. Maybe you have something weird with yours. Maybe there's a flaw in the material or lathing or something.
 
I don't disagree. I have the big ass 2002 24" ride and I love it. Still remember saving all my money up for a couple months and the day I bought it. Never had any problems with it and I'd never part with it. But that crash... It's the reason why I am paranoid about buying certain things online (vs. trying the actual model I will walk away with in the store). Some kind of variation in the machining process or something.
 
My smallest crash is a 16" 2002 med crash. It is a quick cymbal, but I don't hear any weird overtones in it.
 
Thanks guys as expected loads of great advice, I'm currently looking at these...

Paiste 2002 14 hi hat cymbals BLACK LOGO matching. Beautiful and EXCELLENT cond | eBay

They are old but still worth the money?

Cheers
Bruce


Older 2002's might have mellowed a little bit. I have always found Paiste cymbals to be sort of glassy with really high pitched overtones and decay. Never cared for them recorded although they do cut through in a live setting. For recording I find 13" Zildjian New Beats to be just about perfect. K's are nice for a darker sound and less volume. If you have the coin, Paiste 602's are really great.
 
Hmm, I'd never buy cymbals I never played before. Most high-end cymbals are partly hand manufactured which means that two cymbals in the same line might sound similar but never sound the same.

I've got cymbals from Paiste and Zildjian but could have also walked away with different brands. If you're going to buy cymbals I'd recomend going to a store which has a drumkit you can play on and a lot of cymbals, bring your own cymbals (perhaps tell them which are yours already) and find the cymbals that complement the once you already haven. I spent a fun afternoon at a very nice kit trying all the cymbals in the store which was great fun!

With hi-hats specifically I would check that they don't create a vacuum between them. I've bought the Zildjian Mastersound 14" hi-hat which has a serrated bottom through which air can go. Not all hi-hats create a vacuum, it also depends on the set-up of your stand, but keep in mind while trying your new hats.
As far as sounds go: follow your ears. I love my 14" Mastersound because they are bright sounding and sweet for lighter stuff but when played rougher also create a nice heavy rock sound. But I've played another set of 14" Mastersound hats which I didn't like at all. So just listen to them and see for yourself...

Good luck!
 
I would steer clear of the hat sets with the rippled bottom hat for recording. These things are loud, so you have to play the rest of the kit really loud in order to balance the kit.

It almost requires you to.gently tap on the hat and beat to snot out of the drums in order to make it work.
 
I would steer clear of the hat sets with the rippled bottom hat for recording. These things are loud, so you have to play the rest of the kit really loud in order to balance the kit.

It almost requires you to.gently tap on the hat and beat to snot out of the drums in order to make it work.

Not entirely, but they are loud. The plus side being you don't have to mic the hats.
 
I was exaggerating a bit, but I have PTSD from guys coming into the studio with 7 toms, those hats, K series crashes, in a metal band, but fancying themselves as jazz drummers and not hitting the drums while washing a partially open hat...

I'm a big believer in choosing stuff that goes together dynamically with the rest of the kit.

For the light hitter, K series equivelent will work well. If you are a basher, louder stuff will work for you.

Personal choice would be to mic the hat. I don't like relying on the overheads for it, especially if the drummer is doing something interesting.
 
I play heavy on the drums, medium on the cymbals, and I don't do anything interesting, so just overheads works out fine for me. :D
 
I used to play heavy on the drums, medium on cymbals, but did fancy stuff. I was using 14 sabian AA hats, but I went through a phase where I was using 15 inch Paiste vault hats. Back in the old days I used a quick beat and a new beat bottom cymbal as a set.

Now, due to my living arrangements, I'm all Roland. I really don't like it, but I don't play enough to justify a rehearsal space.
 
Good to know that could be a complication of my hats. I haven't spend any time in a professional studio with my kit, but good to be prepared when the time comes... I wouldn't call myself a hard hitter but others call me that so I'm not sure :D...

---------- Update ----------

I do love those hats live though :)
 
Simple test to see if the hats are a problem with the way you play:
1. Put a single mic in front of the kit about snare height about 2 feet in front of the kick.

2. press record and play for a while.

listen back to it. If the hats dominate the kit, it could be a problem.

Besides having too much hat in the overheads, the other problem will be bleed in the snare and toms. Gating sucks because you will be able to hear the hat bleed turn on and off with the gate.

All of this is really about control and being aware that, as a drummer, you need to be in control of the dynamics of the kit. In other words, you have to mix the kit by how you play it. Even if everything has it's own mic, if you are playing one piece of the kit too much louder than another, it will be a problem.
 
Sorry for leaving it so long guys, thanks again for all the great advice, coincidentally and maybe unfortunately, I took the plunge and bought a set of Zildian ZHT master sound off the Bay as they were nearly new and about half price.
I wish I had the luxury of trying out kit nearby but one of the disadvantages of living in a remote area and having a hectic life means I don't get the chance to get near any big music stores.
I'm not a drummer so most of this is new, the drummer in my band isn't a gear head and most of his stuff is as old as the hills and not branded, but I love his sound... He's coming round tomorrow to help me tune up.
I'll get a basic set up then go looking for the rest of the cymbals. Once I get it set up I'll try a quick record for balance and post it.
Does stick choice effect volume?
Thanks again
Bruce
 
Does stick choice effect volume?
Thanks again
Bruce
Not really. However, if you hit hard and choose really thin sticks, you will break them. The best way to choose sticks is by how they fit your hand and how they balance in your hand.

The most comfortable sticks I ever used were Vater DSK's. They are kind of like a really long 5B with a thick neck. I stopped using them and switched to 5B's because their length was making it hard to play the faster stuff. But I'm sure they were only comfortable because I have giant monkey arms...
 
Does stick choice effect volume?

I'd like to add that though you can play hard and soft with both thick and thin sticks, I always find that soft and subtle playing comes a bit easier with thinner sticks, while with thicker sticks playing rough comes more natural. With thin I mean 7a and with thick 5a I never play thicker or thinner sticks. Purely technically: the heavier the stick the louder the volume (as long as you do not correct with how you use them, which you probably will).
For choosing a stick try to find out what you like best, I guess it's only a matter of preference and you're probably able to get used to playing every kind of stick.
You're probably save with 5a which is the most used sticksize, 7a are mostly used by drummers how play more jazzy/funky stuff, and thicker sticks might be used by metal drummers. This is on average, you can probably find any kind of drummer in any kind of genre with any kind of stick.

Saw a german jazzdrummer once play a toy drumkit with tiny sticks and he rocked the hell out of it.

@ Farview, I'd like to give that a try. Does this work the same with untreated rooms? I still have got to take care of the acoustic treating in mine...
 
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