Glyn Johns Method....sort of

ibleedburgundy

ibleedburgundy

The Anti-Lambo
So I was experimenting with this method the other day with some changes. I have a pair of Naiant SDCs that I've been using as overheads. Lately I've been feeling like they were a bit thin sounding and considering an upgrade. Then I was reading about the Glyn Johns technique. Someone on a forum was saying you probably ought to be using a darker sounding mic. The Naiants aren't that, and I don't have another pair of SDCs. So I decided to use my KM184 as the snare overhead and my AT4040 as the mic that goes nearer to the floor tom - both exactly 40 inches away from the center of the top snare drum head.

Instant revelation. My drums had never sounded like this before. It had this instant Phil Collins/Easy Lover type sound (I mean that in a good way). It was a really cool effect except for one thing: I have a china cymbal right above my ride cymbal on the floor tom side and that put the AT4040 right on plane with it. So whenever I hit the china (which is a Meinl Byzance - totally fucking awesome cymbal that is an integral part of my newest project) I got this weird wash where the cymbal was hitting the overheads at different times. Sounds fine on the KM184 but the AT4040 is picking up major pitch fluctuations as a the cymbal flops around. If I panned the overheads hard, it would basically sound like the china was flying around the room. Very unnatural.

So then I raise up the AT4040 to be off plane with the China but still precisely 40 inches from the snare. But then I lost the Phil Collins effect. Damn it! :mad:

At this point I don't know if there is a solution other than some sort of compromise. Moving the China is not really an option although I could probably live with tilting it if needed or perhaps tightening it up on the stand so it doesn't flop. The Naiants are still set up as cymbal overheads even though I don't need them (24 inches above the crashes on either side of the set). Track count is not an issue as I am set up to do 18 simultaneous if need be. I could try to blend them with the AT4040 in the original Glyn Johns position and hope the wash, errr, washes out. I'm not sure if this will work.

Anyone ever use Glyn Johns with unmatched mics? How do you avoid the cymbal wash on the floor tom side mic if it is on plane with a cymbal?
 
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Track the China cymbal seperately. Take it out of the kit to avoid hitting it. Mic like you had it to get that sound you'd achieved, then set up the mics specifically for a good China sound.
 
I used the Glyn for a very long time, but with a matching pair of AKG C1000s. I like the Glyn. I went back to regular spaced pair, though. It allowed me to get the mics further away from the kit, which I like better.
 
I don't have a solution for you, but some questions. This is like that doppler effect where a cymbal is being hit hard enough to move around? And I'd presume the KM184 is seeing it more from above, but the other mic would be getting more of a side view? It's interesting that one picks up more on the movement.
 
mixsit said:
I don't have a solution for you, but some questions. This is like that doppler effect where a cymbal is being hit hard enough to move around? And I'd presume the KM184 is seeing it more from above, but the other mic would be getting more of a side view? It's interesting that one picks up more on the movement.
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That's correct regarding mic placement.

I don't think it's the doppler effect. Cymbals primarily project sound straight down and straight up. So if you have a mic pointed straight at the edge of the cymbal, and that cymbal is rebounding from the hit, the sound is going to be very different at the top of the rebound from the part of the rebound where the cymbal is perpendicular to the mic.
 
You could try the recorderman which is similar to the glyn johns method. The first mic goes the same, right above the snare. but the second mic is more over the right shoulder of the drummer. I've actually used a position that's somewhere in between glyn johns and the recorderman with good results. Maybe give that a whirl?
 
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