The Fake Drums Tone Thread

It's a friend of mines song. I'm working with him to build an albums worth of songs for him. He struggles to play guitar now with his old hands so I'm doing all the instruments for him and he's just got the singing duties.

I remember the story. You posted one of his songs in the Clinic.

---------- Update ----------

This.

I mean I know why a lot of people do it, and Im not hating on it, I just said it would be cool to have a thread like this with real drums. I dont want to get into a long and drawn out debate over fake drums and how they always sound fake no matter what or why its ok to use fake drums that are fake. I give zero fucks about all of that. My interest is hearing how other fellow home recording peoples kits are sounding and what I can do to make mine sound better.

Liv, you did notice the title of this thread right?
 
Right yeah, me too, but I feel like you can't even mention real drums without certain people getting offended, storming in and defending their right to use samples, even though it wasn't threatened.


Actually...it's more the other way around, IMO.
People mention sampled drums...and drummers come in for the hundredth time to say sampled drums are "fake". :D

I'm stuck in the middle of the whole stupid debate...'cuz I use a kit in my studio, and I use sampled drums too.
I still haven't figured out where the "fake" part is...'cuz at the end of the day, I'm doing "real" work with both to get "real" drum tracks.
I mean..the drum tracks are there, they are real...they are note fake...I can hear them...I can even see them in the DAW. ;)
 
Actually...it's more the other way around, IMO.
People mention sampled drums...and drummers come in for the hundredth time to say sampled drums are "fake". :D

I'm stuck in the middle of the whole stupid debate...'cuz I use a kit in my studio, and I use sampled drums too.
I still haven't figured out where the "fake" part is...'cuz at the end of the day, I'm doing "real" work with both to get "real" drum tracks.
I mean..the drum tracks are there, they are real...they are note fake...I can hear them...I can even see them in the DAW. ;)

I do understand it to some extent. Playing drums is hard. People who have invested those 10,000 hours in learning to play well, not to mention the skills and gear it takes to record them, are going to be biased in favor of live drums over sampled ones. I get it. I feel the same about amps v sims. I'm not going to bash people who use sims, but for me micing an amp is part of the craft and is just a lot more fun. But at the end of the day, it either grooves or it doesn't.

Wonder if JDOD has given up on his thread? Maybe after we have spent fifteen pages discussing whether or not we should be discussing programmed drums, then we will get on to discussing them. ;)
 
Actually...it's more the other way around, IMO.
People mention sampled drums...and drummers come in for the hundredth time to say sampled drums are "fake". :D

I'm stuck in the middle of the whole stupid debate...'cuz I use a kit in my studio, and I use sampled drums too.
I still haven't figured out where the "fake" part is...'cuz at the end of the day, I'm doing "real" work with both to get "real" drum tracks.
I mean..the drum tracks are there, they are real...they are note fake...I can hear them...I can even see them in the DAW. ;)

Lol. You're just playing devil's advocate for the sample crowd because you use them yourself. No problem there, but you know damn good and well what the real drummers are saying when we talk about fake vs real.
 
Lol. You're just playing devil's advocate for the sample crowd because you use them yourself. No problem there, but you know damn good and well what the real drummers are saying when we talk about fake vs real.

Yeah...I know when drums can *sound* fake...yes, and often it is coming from poor samples/sequences...though TBH, I've heard lousy sounding live-recorded drums...and you may not want to call them "fake", but if they sound like shit, who cares if they are "real". ;)

That's all I'm saying.
I think both approaches can yield drum tracks that sound as good and as real as anything out there.

So...if this thread is just about the guys who's sequenced samples end up sounding fake...OK...then fine, it can become like the MP3 Clinic where those people can talk about what to do about making them sound more "real".
I just don't buy any out-of-hand perspectives that some folks have, that anything not live-recorded is somehow always "fake".

Let's talk about how it sounds...that's all I really care about at the end of the day.
It's like amps and sims...I prefer to use a real amp, but I accept that a "fake amp" (aka a sim) can sound as real as anything, if done well...just like sampled/sequenced drums can. :)
 
Yeah...I know when drums can *sound* fake...yes, and often it is coming from poor samples/sequences...though TBH, I've heard lousy sounding live-recorded drums...and you may not want to call them "fake", but if they sound like shit, who cares if they are "real". ;)

That's all I'm saying.
I think both approaches can yield drum tracks that sound as good and as real as anything out there.

So...if this thread is just about the guys who's sequenced samples end up sounding fake...OK...then fine, it can become like the MP3 Clinic where those people can talk about what to do about making them sound more "real".
I just don't buy any out-of-hand perspectives that some folks have, that anything not live-recorded is somehow always "fake".

Let's talk about how it sounds...that's all I really care about at the end of the day.
It's like amps and sims...I prefer to use a real amp, but I accept that a "fake amp" (aka a sim) can sound as real as anything, if done well...just like sampled/sequenced drums can. :)

I don't disagree with that, but that's not where I'm coming from. It's pointless for me to even explain or discuss at this point.
 
I don't disagree with that, but that's not where I'm coming from. It's pointless for me to even explain or discuss at this point.

I know where you are coming from, that people don't take the time to do sampled drums right, and they get lazy and just use shit out of the box...I get that, and I agree with you.

I was just saying that some people tend to slam anything "sampled"...out of hand.
 
Right. Basic rules for making programmed drums sound "real":
1) Don't be exactly on the beat every single time. Drummers are not machines. Drum machines are. If you want to be a real drummer...why am I getting Pinocchio in my head?
2) Use multiple samples that sound close to the same, but not exactly the same. A snare sounds different when you open up on the ride than it does when you're crossed over on the hats. You never hit any drum or cymbal exactly the same twice in a row. Having the same hat sound (or any other for that matter) over and over again does not sound real.
3) Vary your velocity realistically. Emphasis where you'd actually have emphasis in the beat.
4) If at all possible, play the drums in using a keyboard, or better yet, an eDrum set. If you need to quantize, see #1.
 
Actually...it's more the other way around, IMO.
People mention sampled drums...and drummers come in for the hundredth time to say sampled drums are "fake". :D

I'm stuck in the middle of the whole stupid debate...'cuz I use a kit in my studio, and I use sampled drums too.
I still haven't figured out where the "fake" part is...'cuz at the end of the day, I'm doing "real" work with both to get "real" drum tracks.
I mean..the drum tracks are there, they are real...they are note fake...I can hear them...I can even see them in the DAW. ;)

I have no idea. I'm not interested in the debate, I don't hate sampled drums or care why people use them.
I just think it would be cool if there was a place to talk about mic'ing my kit. No biggie.
 
In the hopes of getting this thread back on the rails. . . :) I've made a preset in addictive drums 2 that has all the fx turned off and the kit seems to sound more natural with that setting. Adding a second kit playing the same part helps give it some oomf too, although I wonder sometimes if it doesn't cause some phasing issues. I'm still experimenting with it.
 
Lotsa good points here, & I do understand where the guys who use real drums are coming from. If possible, I'd use real drums too, but for now, it just ain't gonna happen, so I use drum vsti's, & probably will for a while to come...

While I don't claim to be an expert at programming drums, I do have a pretty good handle on it because I've been at it for a long time, & I've had a few people who have really helped me along the way...

I'll post my workflow/thinking/whatever in my next post here, but most (if not all) is already covered in the sticky here...

IMHO, the thread I've linked covers pretty much everything you'd need to make your programmed drums sound much better, there are tips/tricks from a lot of guys there, & it's a really helpful thread IMO...
 
Lotsa good points here, & I do understand where the guys who use real drums are coming from. If possible, I'd use real drums too, but for now, it just ain't gonna happen, so I use drum vsti's, & probably will for a while to come...

While I don't claim to be an expert at programming drums, I do have a pretty good handle on it because I've been at it for a long time, & I've had a few people who have really helped me along the way...

I'll post my workflow/thinking/whatever in my next post here, but most (if not all) is already covered in the sticky here...

IMHO, the thread I've linked covers pretty much everything you'd need to make your programmed drums sound much better, there are tips/tricks from a lot of guys there, & it's a really helpful thread IMO...
Cheers miner
 
I just think it would be cool if there was a place to talk about mic'ing my kit. No biggie.

Mmmm...OK...though I kinda' thought the entire Drum and Percussion forum was available for that.
I mean...do you think you need a dedicated thread...?
I guess you could just start one if you have specific questions/issues..etc.

I can understand why the guys who only use sampled drums feel they need a dedicated thread...'cuz there is a lot of negativity aimed at sampled drum use, and some people even feel that those discussions shouldn't be in the Drums and Percussion forum, which I don't agree with. In the end, it is about drum tracks.
It would be like telling the guitar players who use sims, not to post in the Guitar forum. :)

I just don't see a need for any negativity and put-downs, out of hand.
Guys should be able to talk freely about miking a drum kit and/or sequencing a drum groove....and how best to use either approach to end up with a better recording.
 
#1. Use a decent drum machine or click track/metronome and then find a drummer to record for you then redo the bass track to match the drummer.
#2. If you can't do #1 use something based on real drumming - even Band In A Box has audio of real drumming phrases that link to create a drum track. It doesn't allow you the flexibility of adjusting the internal kit balance or EQ but has an inherent internal balance and EQ as preferred by the drummer.
#3. Bemoan the fact that drumming is REALLY hard work and get into drum free folk & country.
It's particularly interesting to note that the active drummers in HR are multi-instrumentalist songwriting recordists.
 
Ok, I'll hybrid bite. What here is fake and what is a sample? Scratch tracks for a project I am working on. Everything is in raw stage of drum recording.
 

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The best thing I ever did was start learning to play drums. I first borrowed an electric kit off a friend to have a go before laying out the cash on one myself. (I didn't want to spend that kind of cash on something I might not take to.) In the very near future I'll have a real kit, mic'd up and have a whole new journey of recording on my hands.

Regardless, I don't care for Real vs Fake. If they sound good in the song, it doesn't matter to me. I want a real kit to learn. It's my hobby to learn. If I can learn to play drums, anyone can.

:thumbs up:
 
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