Editing Drums

TheNightman77

New member
Hi there,

Im having a problem with editing my drums after recording. Admittedly although not really a noob in the fact that I've been recording for a few years, I am in that everything I've learned I've taught myself so there's still much that I don't know that is probably considered standard recording knowledge. I generally record to 4 or 5 tracks using overheads/kick/snare. My main problem is during the editing phase after recording where I line up my transients with the click track to ensure proper timing. I am doing all of this manually rather than quantizing as I do notice an audible difference when I try to quantize....it seemingly degrades the quality of the hits and often even seems to make the recorded audio quieter (I use DP6 as my recording and editing software). Is this normal?

Anyway I may be going overboard in the drum editing process in that I am making edits almost on every hit to line the up correctly. Its possible that I am just settling for a subpar performance and then trying to edit everything, so I am going to try to do better with that in the future. However given that I have already done all the edits on a song I am working on, I have included crossfades between all of the hits. I was originally skeptical about this but I found a drum editing video online where the guy did it for every hit and just nudged everything to line up with the transients and had great results. I thought this would work for me but unfortunately it seems to be overloading my processor (or maybe my converters?) and slows down the playback. Its actually gotten to the point where if I try to add another crossfade my project is seemingly unable to process the request. If I try the "merge soundbites" option rather than crossfading it also appears to degrade the quality of the audio.

So my main questions are does anybody have any useful feedback in terms of editing drums after recording? I am sure that there already topics out there on this somewhere, if someone could point me in the right direction that would be great, when I searched for drum editing the topics that came up were unrelated. If anybody could maybe provide some techniques that they use for editing it would be great too. Also if you have any feedback regarding whether or not my processor must be getting overstressed do to the amount of fades that would be helpful too.

Thanks much in advance for the help! Be kind to my poor editing techniques, obviously I am doing something wrong because this approach isn't working!
- Nightman
 
I'm afraid that you, or your drummer, is just gonna have to play better. Record to a click, and be good. I'm sorry but it it's just that simple. Lining up every hit seems like a ridiculous amount of work and wouldn't get good results.
 
The link doesn't work. It's not just crossfading that takes place when you start cutting and splicing pieces to fit a grid. To the best of my knowledge, most DAW's use a time-stretch program to piece it all back together. Time-stretch basically involves changing the time of an audio event while maintaining the overall sound. It's like taking a piece recorded at 120 bpm and changing it to 140 bpm without altering pitch. Some of those processes are very taxing on a computer, and big changes in time hardly ever sound good. Especially if you have hundreds of little snippets the computer has to deal with. Some DAW's handle it better than others.

Like I said, play better next time, and re-track this time.
 
Never used digital performer, but if it's like pro tools then all those stupid cross fades tax the cpu. The best way to dump that nonsense is to occasionally bounce the tracks so they are one solid event again.

I agree with Greg to a point, if your edits are sounding shit then the performance wasn't tight enough.

But I disagree with Greg to a point because editing drums is extremely common place in modern recording.


@Greg_L: Actually drum editing doesn't rely on time stretching, it could be done that way but it sucks and if the time stretch algorithm sucks (like it does in pro tools) you get all kinds of shitty artifacts in your drums (fuck that). The way that's more common is to rely on having enough decay on the drums to be able to move the transient and overlap the decay with a crossfade so it sounds more natural.

The problem lies when your drummer sucks hard enough that you have to move transients more than a 16th note (especially at slower tempos like 140bpm or less), cymbals tend to sound fucked up when the move is to great.
 
But I disagree with Greg to a point because editing drums is extremely common place in modern recording.
.

I never said it wasn't. And that seems to be part of the problem. I'm only suggesting that moving forward, we buck the trend and start playing better. I really doubt that legends of the past like Moon and Bonham and Rich split their tracks into a thousand pieces and moved hits around.

If you're a drummer and your part is too difficult to record cleanly or at least with a minor amount of hideable flubs, then you need to either simplify the part or practice more.

And if you're a drummer that can't record to a click when necessary, then sell your shit and take up knitting or something, because you fucking suck as a drummer.
 
You'll have to excuse Greg, as sometimes his online response filter tends to give out when he's trying to convey what he really thinks... You will find that his advice is usually as spot-on and accurate as you will ever hope to find, it's just the delivery that is a bit brutal.

This tends to ruffle some feathers sometimes. Our apologies for this.

As always, Greg's answer hits the proverbial nail on the head, but what he meant to say was:

"And if you're a drummer that can't record to a click when necessary, then sell your shit and take up POTTERY or something, because you fucking suck as a drummer."

We sincerely hope that the knitting drummers out there don't look upon his original answer as a reflection of all of us here at HR.com.

:)
 
Thanks for all the feedback everybody. One thing is for sure, I'm no Moon or Bonham, and I'm certainly not trying to be...I just wanted to learn how to edit drums as Guitargodgt was mentioning. I know that my drums are never going to be perfect but they should be good enough that with a little tweaking they can sound great. Thanks for the bounce recommendation, I should have thought of that from the beginning. Truth be told I was actually very pleased with the sound I was getting while doing all of those edits, it was just a lot of work, and eventually too taxing on my computer. I ended up taking Greg's advice and re-tracking, that certainly had a lot to do with it.
 
And if you're a drummer that can't record to a click when necessary, then sell your shit and take up knitting or something, because you fucking suck as a drummer.

I have to respectfully call bullshit on this little chunk of innate insight/opinion.

There are a lot of players that can play to a click and do it with soul and feel and make it sound like a motherfucker, but some people can't.

And it's not to say that they suck as drummers. There are drummers that just sound forced or robotic playing to a click on a session. Take the click away and lo and behold - it's like the Amen break all over again.

Or something.

One little caveat - if you've NEVER played to a click, even doing rudiments on a practice pad or just learning your shit to begin with - getting the aspect of TIME ingrained in your head - yeah, you might just plain suck.
 
I have to respectfully call bullshit on this little chunk of innate insight/opinion.

There are a lot of players that can play to a click and do it with soul and feel and make it sound like a motherfucker, but some people can't.

And it's not to say that they suck as drummers. There are drummers that just sound forced or robotic playing to a click on a session. Take the click away and lo and behold - it's like the Amen break all over again.

Or something.
.

You're wrong, or don't understand my point. A good drummer can play to a click whether he needs/wants to or not. Don't get it twisted. I'm not saying they should play to a click. I'm saying a good drummer can play to a click. Bad drummers can't. Click or no click is of no consequence to a good drummer. He can handle it either way. Bad drummers need it one way or the other.

Simply put, if you can't play with a click, you're not good. Or you're not as good as you think you are.
 
You're wrong, or don't understand my point. A good drummer can play to a click whether he needs/wants to or not. Don't get it twisted. I'm not saying they should play to a click. I'm saying a good drummer can play to a click. Bad drummers can't. Click or no click is of no consequence to a good drummer. He can handle it either way. Bad drummers need it one way or the other.

Simply put, if you can't play with a click, you're not good. Or you're not as good as you think you are.

I think we're on the same page as far as editing goes. None is preferred.

And for drummers that struggle with a click on a session, taking it away isn't always the answer but sometimes it can be. It depends on the player.

Either way, playing to a click track/metronome is a skill that's necessary to learn drumming and the role of time, but not necessarily for doing a session. If the click kills the feel, kill the click.

But know it.
 
Lol. I still disagree. A "drummer that struggles with a click" is not a good drummer, and certainly shouldn't be doing any session work. A good drummer simply will not struggle with a click track. A locked in performance may not be what the song needs, but that's not the point. The point is.....a good drummer can play, and play well, to a click, or with no click. They're fine either way. A bad drummer will either need a click all the time, or shun click tracks alltogether.
 
Clicketty Click, 66.....

Lol. I still disagree. A "drummer that struggles with a click" is not a good drummer, and certainly shouldn't be doing any session work. A good drummer simply will not struggle with a click track. A locked in performance may not be what the song needs, but that's not the point. The point is.....a good drummer can play, and play well, to a click, or with no click. They're fine either way. A bad drummer will either need a click all the time, or shun click tracks alltogether.
While I wouldn't go so far as to say that would make the drummer not a good drummer {some are just bleedin' stubborn and won't do clicks}, I'm in agreement with Greg's point about being able to play to them. And not just drummers either. This doesn't mean that they must always be used, just that one should, when necesary, be able to. In the same way one should be able to play slowly or quietly. It's part of acquiring all round musical skill.
Miroslav and Rami made an interesting observation a while back about clicks acting as a time reference and for me, this is key. Many people say that they kill the feel but I'd say they do that only if you focus on them and let them kill the feel. I remember in live situations when I would play guitar to a drum machine. Initially, it was really hard because I weave my own time and a relentlessly accurate timepiece is merciless in showing up one's timing flaws. But after a while, I learned to still weave my own time but within the confines of the metronomic beat. If we'd been recorded and you took out the drum machine, you wouldn't have noted a 'killed' feel or a robotic, mechanical feel because if you listen good, you can weave your own time, yet still be within the strict metronomic beat.
It's a bit like the way a song can have the same actual tempo all the way through, yet some bits can sound fast and busy while other parts seem slowed down simply because of how the various instruments are played..... Yet the tempo never wavers.
Clicks, like so much else in music, are a useful tool, especially if one begins the recording process on one's own.
 
While I wouldn't go so far as to say that would make the drummer not a good drummer {some are just bleedin' stubborn and won't do clicks}.

That's because they're scared and/or not good. I'm serious, good drummers that are confident in their goodness are completely indifferent about clicks.
 
That's because they're scared and/or not good. I'm serious, good drummers that are confident in their goodness are completely indifferent about clicks.
I don't know....could be true. It's just that some people who have played and recorded for a long time just don't want to be told what to do, how to read "War and peace". They would say it's precisely because they are confident in their ability and goodness that they don't need clicks. A bit like some old timers that would kill you before using a microwave. Stubborn.
 
They would say it's precisely because they are confident in their ability and goodness that they don't need clicks. .

That could be, but there's a difference between not needing a click and refusing to play to one out of some bullshit priciple. I'm always suspect of guys/bands that refuse to multitrack or use clicks. It's usually because they suck.
 
That could be, but there's a difference between not needing a click and refusing to play to one out of some bullshit priciple. I'm always suspect of guys/bands that refuse to multitrack or use clicks. It's usually because they suck.
If you are talking about people who are 45 and younger, I agree. There are a lot of old-timers that have been doing it without a click for 50 years and are just not going to start now. It's like trying to get your great grandparents to use an i-Phone, they just won't do it.
 
Back
Top