Drum newb shopping for a first kit

Tadpui

Tadpui

Well-known member
Lately I've been fighting the urge to buy a drum kit for my home studio. It'd just be for a small home studio room, no gigging or touring or anything like that. I'm just looking for something that records pretty well, and is somewhat compact (no 12-piece double-bass roto-tom rail system thing on a Tommy Lee rotating platform with a gong). I'm fine with a 4-piece, might go for a 5-piece.

From what I can tell so far, it looks like my local Craigslist ads are the best option. There are a fair number of "bought it for my kid, he played it once, now I want it out of my garage" kinds of ads. And they tend to include cymbals and hardware. Compare that to buying new, where just a shell pack runs $500-$1000 for barely over an entry-level kit. A lot of the used kits that I see on Craigslist and Reverb seem to be geared towards my needs, but I just don't know which brands I can trust in the just-above-entry-level range. What I'm seeing the most of:

- Pearl Export
- Tama Rockstar/Stagestar/Superstar
- Ludwig Blackhawk/Accent
- Rogers/Silvertone "the Sears years" kits
- obvious pieces of shit, even to my untrained eye (SP, Harmony, First Act, Premiere, Pearl Forum)

Any obvious brands/models to look for in my situation? I appreciate any input from any drum-wise fellas here.
 
Any of the big name brand kits will be fine. A Pearl Export is a billion times better than the Sears/Rogers/First Act stuff. You can record good tracks with the lower end stuff from the big-name drum companies. They won't hold up well to gigs, but you're not doing that.

You really need to ask yourself how much additional money you're willing to spend on cymbals and hardware. Even cheapo drums can be made to record well with the right heads and tuning, but junk cymbals have very little hope. Rickety junk hardware can be noisy and ruin a recording. Creaky thrones, squeaky kick pedals, clunky hi-hat stands...all of this is bad. You might want to invest in a good snare since they are the centerpiece of any kit. You might spend as much on a snare as you do on the rest of the kit.
 
I've had a Pearl Forum and Pearl Export - both sounded OK with improved skins, but I seem to remember the hardware being better with the Export. Stock cymbals were equally shit on both.

Bit hazy 'cos it was a while ago but I remember the Forum sounding awful until I spent some money on it - practically like a toy kit. The kick pedal wouldn't stay attached to the shell, the toms would always come lose and move about, top hat wound't stay in place etc. All these things I sorted though with the contents of my tool box and a trip to the hardware store. Can't remember what happened to this kit, pretty sure I gave it away but can't remember when or who I gave it to.

The Export was much better, everything just held together better, I cleaned this up and got it sounding pretty nice. My mate who I gave it to still uses it all the time and has recorded with it loads.

Greg, will probably hunt me down and shoot me for this... but, I've always thought of drums being a bit like cheap guitars - you can make them sound pretty good by spending a few quid in the right places, making sure you replace the shonkiest hardware and giving them decent skins. Like with a shit guitar, if you replace a little bit of hardware and chuck in decent pickups it will sound and play well.

So, my uneducated bullshit summary would be - balance the price of upgrading a few parts against the price of the kit - you'll also learn something while sticking it all together and replacing stuff.
 
JDOD said:
Greg, will probably hunt me down and shoot me for this... but, I've always thought of drums being a bit like cheap guitars - you can make them sound pretty good by spending a few quid in the right places, making sure you replace the shonkiest hardware and giving them decent skins.
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I've said this all along. Decent shells will sound good with good heads, good hoops, good lugs, and good tuning. If the shell is round and has a good bearing edge, you can tune it and have it sound good. I argue with drummers all the time about shell material. Some people swear by Birch or Maple or Oak or whatever. I swear by not giving a shit. My position is just give me the right size drums and right heads for what I'm doing and I can tune them to sound awesome no matter what the shell is made of. The right heads for the task and how you tune them go farther for the tone of the drum than what the stupid shell is made of. The problem with cheap drum shells us usually the lugs and hoops. A good tom shell might have a minimum of 8 lugs and heavy cast or forged hoops. A cheap shell often has only 6 lugs and flimsy stamped hoops. More lugs and heavier hoops makes tuning way easier and more accurate.

Quality hardware is most beneficial for gigging. You don't need heavy duty double-braced stands for recording. You can use flimsier stuff provided it stays put and doesn't make noise. Any moving parts, like kick pedals or hat stands, need to be smooth and quiet. Kick pedals are double-important because they have to be quiet, but also smooth and functional so you can play better.
 
Cool - glad I didn't totally shame myself there, mate!

Tad, both my drum kits were given to me (and I gave them both away) although this was at a time when e-kits were on the rise. You can probably pick up an Export for fucking peanuts - or even nothing if you can find a parent who's appropriately pissed off with their 15 year old. I like said, try and get an Export as a minimum and keep a few hundred quid aside for upgrading the shit bits where necessary.

If I had the space and neighbours I would do it again.
 
As I continue to shop, I realize that I incorrectly included Premier on my shit-list. Turns out they're made in England, and their midrange kits look comparable to Tama/Mapex/Pearl kits in the same price range. Good-looking hardware, double braced stands, and pretty good reviews from what I've seen.

I've got a line on a used Premier kit with all of the cymbals/hardware/throne included. The pics make it look great, although I can't tell which model it is. Hopefully I'll get to go see/hear it in person today or tomorrow.
 
Premier makes good stuff, but I have no experience with their cheap line.

Pearl exports in decent shape can be made to sound good on recording. Tama Rockstar too.

The most impressive cheap kit I came across was a pacific. Really good for the money.

I agree about the cymbals. You need at least mid line ones. Stay away from the ZBT series and most of the starter cymbal packs.
 
The more I research about this Premier kit, the less I like it. It's their Cabria series, with the big C logo. Early 2000s, mixed reviews, definitely one of their most budget kits. The price is just OK at $400. The hardware looks awesome though.

I do see a Pacific kit with ZBT cymbals going for $500. That seems high, but does include hardware and cymbals.
 
Tadpui said:
The more I research about this Premier kit, the less I like it. It's their Cabria series, with the big C logo. Early 2000s, mixed reviews, definitely one of their most budget kits. The price is just OK at $400. The hardware looks awesome though.

I do see a Pacific kit with ZBT cymbals going for $500. That seems high, but does include hardware and cymbals.
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Pacific (PDP) kits are okay, but those ZBTs are crapola. PDP is like Epiphone compared to DW's Gibson.

Vintage Premeire drums are killer. I really doubt you'll find any in the <$800 range. I'm not familiar with their budget stuff. They're not too common in the US.
 
haha yeah, I saw an older Premier going for $1800. Yikes! Looks like they used to be pretty popular, with lots of endorsements. But it seems that they're kind of a shell of their former selves at this point.

What are some beginner-friendly cymbals that don't sound like trash can lids? The Sabian B8 and Zildjian ZBT seem to be the stock entry-level cymbals that I keep seeing. I take it that they're both pretty terrible...
 
Tadpui said:
haha yeah, I saw an older Premier going for $1800. Yikes! Looks like they used to be pretty popular, with lots of endorsements. But it seems that they're kind of a shell of their former selves at this point.

What are some beginner-friendly cymbals that don't sound like trash can lids? The Sabian B8 and Zildjian ZBT seem to be the stock entry-level cymbals that I keep seeing. I take it that they're both pretty terrible...
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Of all the cheapo cymbals, I'd say B8s are probably the best. They're not great, but they're probably the best of the tin foil trash can lids. The Sabian XSR isn't terrible.

Besides sounding real bad, those cheap cymbals break easily. Not that you're gonna be going all Tommy Lee on your gear, but those things will break within a year or two even with light/normal use. You'd do better if you forget about "beginner" cymbals and just find some used good cymbals. A few basic used Zildjian As will sound good and last a long time. Those are probably the most common good cymbal out in the used market. Paiste Alphas are common and okay for a step above beginner stuff. They're all about the same when you get above the n00b stuff. The jump from beginner trash can lids to the first decent range of cymbals is pretty small. But then the jump from intermediate to truly exceptional range of cymbals is quite large. At that point, the only real differences between the very good cymbals are size, weight, and basic ol personal preference.
 
Everything that has been said here is not worth repeating but its all accurate. I would like to add though that if you hold out for a while something good will come along. Meaning you may end up with something nice for cheap. I got my kit for an outstanding price, Pearl Masters Studio with a cheaper Tama snare, all hardware(cheap) and B8 cymbals(2 crashes, 1 ride and hats) for $600. Just the shells alone go for between $800-1200 used. I lost my cheap shitty drums in a flood in 2008 and didnt get drums again until 2013, but I knew I would eventually so I didnt rush into it. I didnt really start looking until the last two years and I was patient. Just keep your eye out ask around too, some people have gear laying around that they arent actively wanting to sell but will once its brought up. Good luck!
 
Greg_L said:
Of all the cheapo cymbals, I'd say B8s are probably the best. They're not great, but they're probably the best of the tin foil trash can lids. The Sabian XSR isn't terrible.

Besides sounding real bad, those cheap cymbals break easily. Not that you're gonna be going all Tommy Lee on your gear, but those things will break within a year or two even with light/normal use. You'd do better if you forget about "beginner" cymbals and just find some used good cymbals. A few basic used Zildjian As will sound good and last a long time. Those are probably the most common good cymbal out in the used market. Paiste Alphas are common and okay for a step above beginner stuff. They're all about the same when you get above the n00b stuff. The jump from beginner trash can lids to the first decent range of cymbals is pretty small. But then the jump from intermediate to truly exceptional range of cymbals is quite large. At that point, the only real differences between the very good cymbals are size, weight, and basic ol personal preference.
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It's looking like the A series go for $500-$600 for a boxed set (hats, ride, crash, sometimes a 2nd "free" crash included). I see some Sabian SX20 boxed sets with the same pieces for the $400-$500 range. Sheesh, I'm seriously gonna spend 2x as much on cymbals as I will for a bargain kit!

liv_rong said:
Everything that has been said here is not worth repeating but its all accurate. I would like to add though that if you hold out for a while something good will come along. Meaning you may end up with something nice for cheap. I got my kit for an outstanding price, Pearl Masters Studio with a cheaper Tama snare, all hardware(cheap) and B8 cymbals(2 crashes, 1 ride and hats) for $600. Just the shells alone go for between $800-1200 used. I lost my cheap shitty drums in a flood in 2008 and didnt get drums again until 2013, but I knew I would eventually so I didnt rush into it. I didnt really start looking until the last two years and I was patient. Just keep your eye out ask around too, some people have gear laying around that they arent actively wanting to sell but will once its brought up. Good luck!
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Yeah, I agree. I get all caught up and just want instant gratification :) It's tough with Craigslist...there's no telling how long something will sit there, so I want to jump on any deal I find. But I also don't want to get stuck with something that just plain sucks.
 
Tadpui said:
It's looking like the A series go for $500-$600 for a boxed set (hats, ride, crash, sometimes a 2nd "free" crash included). I see some Sabian SX20 boxed sets with the same pieces for the $400-$500 range. Sheesh, I'm seriously gonna spend 2x as much on cymbals as I will for a bargain kit!
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That sounds about right. Cymbals unfortunately are usually the big ass-puckering expense of drums, but without good ones you sound like crap. The good thing is you only need a few. Hats, ride, and two crashes will go a very long way.
 
As everybody else has said. The cheaper cymbals are ok for live, but for critical listening and recording they will be awful. Zildjian "A" (avedis) sets are serious cymbals and won't break the bank. Meinl are getting a name for themselves, but it's hard to tell whether that's because they really are great or whether it's because they're spending ridonculous amounts of cash whoring themselves out to name drummers.
 
Bubba po said:
As everybody else has said. The cheaper cymbals are ok for live, but for critical listening and recording they will be awful. Zildjian "A" (avedis) sets are serious cymbals and won't break the bank. Meinl are getting a name for themselves, but it's hard to tell whether that's because they really are great or whether it's because they're spending ridonculous amounts of cash whoring themselves out to name drummers.
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When I had Jason Bittner in the studio, his Meinl's sounded really good. But I have no idea what those specific cymbals cost.

Just to illustrate how important cymbals are: Many guys from out of town would rent drums and hardware, but carry their own snare, cymbals and pedals. The only thing anyone worried about with the drums themselves were the specific sizes. Many times, they would bring their own heads (if they were endorsed). Much of the time, they would just use my old Ludwig kit from the 80's, as long as they could deal with 24 inch kicks and deep toms.
 
I'm a little afraid of the cymbal investment. But it's looking like at least plunking down for A series or better will pay dividends in the long run. I don't suppose that the fancy ones help a newb keep tempo, do they? :D

I feel like I've been cheating with MIDI drums for too long. If it weren't for quantize and the ability to scoot notes around on the timeline, I wouldn't have drums on my songs. Or rather, I wouldn't have drumbeats that follow the song...I guess that I can just call my genre "free time rock" until I practice and get my tempo under control.

How do you studio guys feel about smaller diameter drums in the studio? My space is limited enough that things like the Ludwig Breakbeats and the Gretsch Catalina Club series have a certain allure to them, just for the smaller footprint. But would it be a constant struggle for a rock/folk/sometimes hard rock/sometimes electronic guy to get a 16" or 18" kick and smaller toms to cooperate? I do like what I've heard from those kits, except the snares...they're too high-tuned for my tastes. Would a bigger, lower snare just sound weird in the middle of a compact kit?

I'm finding the main trouble with auditioning kits on youtube is that only 1 in 20 people understand how to mic a fucking kit. An iPhone 12 feet away just doesn't do anybody any good.

*edit* Yeah, exactly this:
 
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Why the hell would you post a video of yourself playing untuned drums? What is the point?

Anyway, the smallest I would go for a kick would be a 20 inch. Small toms tuned low actually record really well. Even a 14 inch floor tom is fine. In recent years, it was hard to find kits at GC that had floor toms bigger than 14 inches. The racks were usually 10 and 12, with a 22 inch kick. They were also relatively shallow.

A far cry from the giant kits of the late 80's, where the toms were just as deep as they were around...
 
LOL I know, right? I've watched that video about 5 times now, I'm mesmerized by how awful it sounds.

I must say that I've been more attracted to the sounds that I've heard out of 22, 24, 26" kicks. But I've heard 1 or 2 tracks with the little 16 or 18" kicks that really didn't sound bad. I think I'm just gonna have to spend more time listening and go audition a kit or ten.
 
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