Cymbals

E

ex351d

Member
I am a guitarist and started a home recording studio. My drum kit has the brass Paiste 101 cymbals. I am looking for an upgrade. Is the PST7 set good enough for studio or should I save for Paiste 2002s? My drums is a Yamaha Rydeen.
 
I bought a lot of used cymbals, tried many, and slowly weeded out the ones I didn't like (sold them back), and kept a final set of what I thought sounded best for recording (live gig band playing may have different requirements).
Mine are all Zildjians...a mix of K, A cymbals...mostly thin/paper thin and dark/custom crashes, Mastersound hats...and a really sweet K custom ride.
 
As Greg stated 2002 are had to beat. For recording, I've been using Signature series 16, 17, & 18 crash, 13" HH, & a dark energy ride which all sound and translate very well. However, this will ultimately come down to style, genre, and personal taste; therefore, I'd recommend heading to a music store & locking yourself in a drum room and trying a bunch of cymbals (even within the same series and size) out until you find what you like. This may take some time and might get to the point that the store wants to throw you out but will be worth the time IMHO.
 
That's interesting that you guys are into cymbal sets. I've never done it. I always just buy whatever cymbal I happen to like. Mine are all hand-picked (Sabian AAX hi-hats, Paiste Signature Crash, Ziljian Trash Splash, Sabian AAX Crash, Ziljian K Ride, Meinl Byzance Dark China).

Anyway, for the OP: I realize the price difference is significant but if possible: Generally speaking - don't go cheap on cymbals. The 2002s will blow the PSTs out of the water. Plus, if you take good care of them (don't hit them the wrong way, replace your felts periodically, make sure they aren't rubbing against metal on your stands) they will last a long time - long after you would have otherwise sold the PST7s to upgrade to something better. I've had my AAX hi-hats and K ride for over a decade. They still sound good.
 
Greg_L said:
I'm not, I just happen to like the 2002 line. None of them sound bad.
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I've never heard a bad sounding 2002 either. I'm a Sabian guy myself. For some reason, never liked the sound of Zildjians. They always seem to have that "Drum machine" sizzle to them.....to my ears.

One of my students brought over his new Sabian AAX's the other day. I didn't think I'd hear that much of a differenc with my regular A"s. I was blown away. The AAX's sound incredible. Might be my next purchase.
 
For me, sabians lasted longer than zildjians. But I've used a bunch of both. If you are budget conscious, buy used, but don't cheap out on cymbals. There is a big difference between cheap ones and good ones.
 
RAMI said:
One of my students brought over his new Sabian AAX's the other day. I didn't think I'd hear that much of a differenc with my regular A"s. I was blown away. The AAX's sound incredible. Might be my next purchase.
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I bought a 17' AAX X-Plosion fast crash last year. I tried a bunch of cymbals at guitar center one day, not planning on buying one. I just liked it a lot. It also has a usable bell which is a plus.
 
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RAMI said:
I've never heard a bad sounding 2002 either. I'm a Sabian guy myself. For some reason, never liked the sound of Zildjians. They always seem to have that "Drum machine" sizzle to them.....to my ears.

One of my students brought over his new Sabian AAX's the other day. I didn't think I'd hear that much of a differenc with my regular A"s. I was blown away. The AAX's sound incredible. Might be my next purchase.
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Ditto to all of that. Sabians are great, and those AAXs are fantastic. And I've never liked Zildjians either. They're fine cymbals, but they just don't sound amazing to me. None of them. People freak out over Ks, and I'm just like whatever. I'm a rock and roll drummer. I don't give a fuck about dark jazz undertones.

I just gravitate toward Paistes because their upper end stuff is smooth and balanced. They're not dark, they're not shrill. They're just smooth. 2002s are just about perfect for me. I am on the hunt though for a 24" RUDE Mega-Power ride. Now that is a ride cymbal.
 
In my opinion cymbals are more important than the drums so don't cheap out. I would rather have a beginner basswood set with $2k in cymbals over a $2k kit with stamped cymbals.
 
i've got 2002 and psyt7 splash. I think you could buy some used 2002 in good condition and use them only on recordings. 101 on rehearsals etc. :)
yu won't regret :)
 
hollowmanpl said:
i've got 2002 and psyt7 splash. I think you could buy some used 2002 in good condition and use them only on recordings. 101 on rehearsals etc. :)
yu won't regret :)
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Yup. You can pick up some good used and sometimes almost new Paiste 2002 (demo with fingerprints) half off or almost half off. Give them a little TLC and you're good to go.
 
I'm going to ask a stupid question since I'm a greenhorn on drums.

You guys are talking about some cymbals lasting a long time. I though cymbals lasted forever, with just normal play. I realize if you just put one on a cymbal stand without a plastic insert or a felt it could get keyholed. I didn't know cymbals ever wore out. I have 2 old Zildjian that sound great. A good friend of mine has a ride cymbal from his older brothers Ludwig set....from 1969 and it sounds sweet to my ears.

Short of getting keyholed or warped from hitting it too hard...In what way does a cymbal go bad?
 
jimistone said:
I'm going to ask a stupid question since I'm a greenhorn on drums.

You guys are talking about some cymbals lasting a long time. I though cymbals lasted forever, with just normal play. I realize if you just put one on a cymbal stand without a plastic insert or a felt it could get keyholed. I didn't know cymbals ever wore out. I have 2 old Zildjian that sound great. A good friend of mine has a ride cymbal from his older brothers Ludwig set....from 1969 and it sounds sweet to my ears.

Short of getting keyholed or warped from hitting it too hard...In what way does a cymbal go bad?
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For me, cheap cymbals have a lifespan of maybe two years or so with regular play. Cheap alloy and stamped sheet cymbals just crack. Think about it - you're hitting them with sticks. And then they vibrate and jiggle and wiggle over and over. It's a recipe for disaster with cheap materials an build methods. Better casting and alloys have stronger molecular integrity and better machining processes. Like hammering. A hammered cymbal can probably last forever with regular use. A lathed cymbal can last forever if it's a good alloy. A hammered and lathed forging will last until the universe implodes, and probably long afterwards. Breaking good cymbals usually means you're hitting them wrong. It's not the cymbal. Believe it or not there is a right way to hit a cymbal. And you're right - good sleeves and felts will help a cymbal last a very long time.

The only high quality cymbal I've broken over the past ten years or so happened because the overhead mic stand got bumped somehow and the cymbal edge was just barely rubbing against it without my knowledge. The hard stand halfassedly dampening the vibrating cymbal made it crack. I went to hit it and heard the telltale sizzle of a cracked cymbal. My heart broke. It took a dumb accident to break that cymbal. It had lasted a long time on it's own.
 
ok, that answers my question. On the kit purchase I recently made I got a Zildjian ride cymbal and a set of hats that were the bronze rock series (stamped cheap cymbals). One of the hats had a crack in it. You could see it from the underside but not so much the top side. So, I see exactly what you mean. I traded those 2 cymbals in on drum heads and other stuff at guitar center. They didn't catch the crack in the one hat. But, they only gave me a dollar an inch so it's not like I bankrupted them on the deal.
Thanks for explaining that to me.
 
No, they don't last forever. I've never broken a ride, but I used to be pretty good at breaking hats and crashes.

I know it's mostly my fault. When I was playing all the time, I didn't break any, besides the hat. When I don't play, then come back to it, I tend to break more cymbals until I get my control back.

I get around breaking hats by using two bottom hats, instead of a bottom and top. I actually like the sound of that better for what I tend to do with the hat.
 
So, what is the correct way to hit cymbals and not crack them?
I have been hitting the crash cymbals with the side of the stick....not to hard (to me that's the difficult part...light touch). They sound the best, to my ears, when struck like that. The hi hat and the ride I hit with the tip of the stick.
Do I have this all wrong?
I don't want to screw up my good cymbals that's for sure.
 
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